i talk to a lot of hunters during the week by pm, email, and on the phone, customers from all over the world. one thing that comes up all the time is fellows w/ priorities on bow tuning a little out of whack. i want to say that draw length supercedes cam timing, and a lot of folks think its the other way around. not too many of us are an exact 29" draw, or an exact 28.5" draw. most of us will fall somewhere in the middle. you can't adjust the front of the bow with a loop. no matter how long or short your loop is, it won't change the way the front of the bow fits you, only the back of the bow. to get the front of the bow to fit you perfectly, its generally necessary to do some tweeking of the string or cable. this will kick your cam out of its 'optimal' position, but not by much. lets say to get the front of the bow to fit just right you need a 28 7/8" draw - easiest place to start is w/ a 29" bow and take a few twists out of the cable or put some in the string - or both - changing your ata a bit and your cams position. this is waaaaaay more important than your ata or cam timing. len is dropping a lot of hints about hunting form vs target form, and i wish i knew more about hunting formfrom him, but to get intoeither form - the bow has to be just right - you can't do it w/out a bow that fits. anyway, i'm up early - i cut up a locust tree that had poison ivy on it and my eyes are almost swollen shut, and i have some time to sit here- so i thought i'd type this out.
__________________
aka bucknasty
The average man seeks certainty in the eyes of the onlooker and calls that self-confidence. The warrior seeks impeccability in his own eyes and calls that humbleness.
Jeesh John, That's what we need. A blind man making our strings. Hope you get it under control. I totally agree with you about bow fit. So many guys get so caught up in crunching numbers. Gotta have the ATA and brace height right on, to the point that they forget about the most important aspect of a compound bow------draw length.
But here's another question to throw into the fray. How do guys set the cam timing on bows that have no marks nor any info from the company in the first place? You know, there are only a few companies that have such specs.
__________________
Martin Silver Star Shooter
UBP Life Member
PSAA Life Member
Worldwide Scuba Diver
funny bg, we just look at them and try to get the cam(s) looking like we think they ought to go.
__________________
aka bucknasty
The average man seeks certainty in the eyes of the onlooker and calls that self-confidence. The warrior seeks impeccability in his own eyes and calls that humbleness.
Gibblet, I agree with you 100%. Draw length is so overlooked. I learned this the hard way myself. Its amazing how much better one can shoot with a proper draw, and shoot consistently. On my Colorado trip, I watched another archer on their range that had such a short draw that his string stopped a full 1" before it even reached his face! He was only using his release as a anchor point. Needless to say he was pretty inconsistant at 30 plus yards.
I didn't fill any tags, but I had a awesome time. I had a nice 6x6 bull only a few ft from meeting my arrow. It was great, our outfitter, and guide were terrific. It was well worth the trip, and were def. going back.
Word of advice on Poison Ivy. Next time you get into it. Immediately jump in the shower, and wash down good with soap. I'm highly allergic to it, and anytime gotten into it in past several yrs, this is what I do. I rarely get it now if I washup asap.
__________________
08' Bowtech General
02' Champion Stratus
i think the poison ivy, or oak, vine was hidden under some virginia creeper because i didn't see it - that or the dogs are bringing it in.
i keep singing 'i think i'm turning ***anese, i think i'm turning ***anese, i really think so' - because i'm looking ***anese.
__________________
aka bucknasty
The average man seeks certainty in the eyes of the onlooker and calls that self-confidence. The warrior seeks impeccability in his own eyes and calls that humbleness.
Great post , I agree drawlength is very important , more important than , ancor point , the other issue you brought up , but thats important allso , as is cam rotation , especialy with single cams . Im 27 7/8s , that is my ultimate drawlength , 28 is allright allso .
__________________
Wear a full harness and tie yourself to your tree !
Take a kid hunting or fishing .
Nocks , the most overlooked component .
__________________
Remington Model 11-87 Premier 12 Gauge
Remington Model 870 SPS-T Camo Thumbhole 12 Gauge
Ruger M77 Mark II .270 w/ Nikon 3-9x40 Buckmasters
I would agree as well on the DL thing. I have found though that given enough tinkering I can usually get the timing and DL proper however ATA and BH aren't always spot on.
I think what Len may be referring to about target form vs hunting form means differences in draw length/peep height/anchor point for different applications.For targets whether 3D, FITA, Field, Indoor, etc people will typically shoot with a longer DL style form (power triangle, etc) and if trained properly most peopleshoot more consistently that way. This type of form works greatand may be more repeatable assuming you have perfect footing and target posture and can control the environment and take the time to make sure this is all in check. This isn't always easy to do though in hunting situations and when you have to shootoff balance, sitting, kneeling, stance more open or closed than normal, up and down hill, etclike what happens in the woods when hunting.
With that said, I typically set my bow up a bit shorter in draw length for hunting as compared to target setups (XT is 28 5/8" true draw on 29.5" cam, A7's are both 29" true draw on 30" cams). As Matt / PA said in another post a few weeks ago, it is a lot easier to stay behind the bow in less than ideal conditions when a bit short even if rear elbow is a bit high/outside, than it is to do using target style power triangle w/ rear elbow position being perfectly level horizontally and vertically.
i want to talk about something
