So, how quiet is your bow?
11-06-2002, 11:20 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
So, how quiet is your bow?
We all have our opinions on what is really important for a hunting bow. Some are fanatics about speed, while others prefer to concentrate on accuracy. Myself, I've always tinkered in the direction of choosing accessories and modifications that make a bow more quiet, and I have been willing to sacrifice both speed and a little accuracy, if necessary, to get it.
It is my opinion that the most important aspect of bowhunting is, how close can you get to your quarry. If you can get close enough, it will make up for poor shooting, slow bows and most of the other things that can go wrong when a large buck is in front of you. However, when you get real close (inside of 20 yards), deer have a greater reaction to noise. If they're really, really close, then it won't matter, but if they're in that 15-20 yard range, then "jumping the string" will become more of a concern. This is my main reason for wanting extreme quiet. I'm always setting myself up for very close shots and I want my bow as quiet as possible when shooting at these ranges.
I'm currently shooting a Martin Panther Mag, which would be considered a low-end bow, by many. In my opinion, it is low-end only in the area of cost. Even though I consider it to be quality equipment, it certainly did not come with any special dampening or quieting features. How much can you get for $285? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> I would have rated it about average in the quiet and vibration department, for a solo cam. After setting it up the way I like to, it has become very quiet. So much so, that I frequently get the comment from experienced shooters, that it is the quietest bow they have ever heard. I'd have to agree. I know, it’s a pretty strong statement to be made for a bow at that price level. Shooting this set-up has probably been one reason I'm seldom impressed by the new, expensive models of many companies. I'm sure I can make their pricey single cam models quiet also, but why bother when I can get about the same results from a low cost bow? As a side note, I’m shooting a 380 grain arrow at 65 lbs.
On to what I do:
It goes without saying, I add Simms Limbsavers to my bows. They flat out work as advertised. Probably no other single product reduces bow noise and vibration as much as this one. No revelation here.
Next, I add Simms String Leeches. They work great for the time that they last! I'm currently using some new ones that Simms sent me for testing. So far, they lasted well. They are made of a softer, more flexible material and have these extensions that allow the string to grip. It seems to spread out the force from the string to a greater surface area. Time will tell if they hold up, but they do work great.
All my bows get Simms Cable Dampeners. They work very well and I highly recommend them. Mine are mounted about a 1/4" below the cable slide when at rest. The follow through of the shot, causes the cable slide to hit the dampeners, thus reducing cable, string and riser vibration even more. This is probably at a cost of a very small amount of speed. Notice that I also put very short catwhiskers on the cable. One on each side.
Okay, enough of the Simms ads.
For a stabilizer, I’m using a very cheap setup. This is a 4” V-Flite by Hi-Tek with a Cobra donut between it and the bow. This is quite adequate. The bow is very dead in the hand, after the shot. I’m sure there are many good options in this department.
My string has only a loop and the string leeches on it. The loop is a homemade Catfish Loop, and it fits rather loosely. It like it for it’s adjustability and the fact that it can’t slip. For some reason, it is a quieter set-up then the standard nock set. It’s lighter and seems to actually help adsorb some of the string vibration. The loop will actually flip around to the bow side of the string, after the shot. This suggests to me that it may actually be adsorbing some of the string vibration in the process.
The next one is a big one. I added Moleskin between any accessories that gave a metal to metal contact with another accessory or the riser. This made a noticeable difference. It’s easy to see in the photo, because I didn’t take the time to trim it carefully before applying – so you could, uh, see it better in the photo. <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle> yeah right…
The next feature is a product of Martin’s limb pocket design. They came up with a connection between the limb and limb pocket that locks the limb in place, yet allows very little contact between the two. The limb only touches the limb pocket in two very small areas. The bottom of the limb has ball-bearing-like objects that fit into matched hollow spots in the limb pockets. These pockets are greased to allow smooth movement and a less direct contact. The limb bolt going through the limb, locks the limb in place. The limb does not and cannot touch the sides of the limb pockets. This makes the back of the limb pockets unnecessary.
Another notable thing about all my bows is the lack of a bow quiver. Bow quivers increase noise, allow arrow to rattle and so I don’t put one on my bow. It makes a difference in the overall noise, even if the arrows happen not to rattle on the shot.
I know that all this seems like such easy, yet insignificant stuff, but when you put it all together it really makes a difference. It’s a real low cost way of getting a cheaper bow to sound like a $700 bow. I welcome any additional hints and tips for quieting your bow.
It is my opinion that the most important aspect of bowhunting is, how close can you get to your quarry. If you can get close enough, it will make up for poor shooting, slow bows and most of the other things that can go wrong when a large buck is in front of you. However, when you get real close (inside of 20 yards), deer have a greater reaction to noise. If they're really, really close, then it won't matter, but if they're in that 15-20 yard range, then "jumping the string" will become more of a concern. This is my main reason for wanting extreme quiet. I'm always setting myself up for very close shots and I want my bow as quiet as possible when shooting at these ranges.
I'm currently shooting a Martin Panther Mag, which would be considered a low-end bow, by many. In my opinion, it is low-end only in the area of cost. Even though I consider it to be quality equipment, it certainly did not come with any special dampening or quieting features. How much can you get for $285? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> I would have rated it about average in the quiet and vibration department, for a solo cam. After setting it up the way I like to, it has become very quiet. So much so, that I frequently get the comment from experienced shooters, that it is the quietest bow they have ever heard. I'd have to agree. I know, it’s a pretty strong statement to be made for a bow at that price level. Shooting this set-up has probably been one reason I'm seldom impressed by the new, expensive models of many companies. I'm sure I can make their pricey single cam models quiet also, but why bother when I can get about the same results from a low cost bow? As a side note, I’m shooting a 380 grain arrow at 65 lbs.
On to what I do:
It goes without saying, I add Simms Limbsavers to my bows. They flat out work as advertised. Probably no other single product reduces bow noise and vibration as much as this one. No revelation here.
Next, I add Simms String Leeches. They work great for the time that they last! I'm currently using some new ones that Simms sent me for testing. So far, they lasted well. They are made of a softer, more flexible material and have these extensions that allow the string to grip. It seems to spread out the force from the string to a greater surface area. Time will tell if they hold up, but they do work great.
All my bows get Simms Cable Dampeners. They work very well and I highly recommend them. Mine are mounted about a 1/4" below the cable slide when at rest. The follow through of the shot, causes the cable slide to hit the dampeners, thus reducing cable, string and riser vibration even more. This is probably at a cost of a very small amount of speed. Notice that I also put very short catwhiskers on the cable. One on each side.
Okay, enough of the Simms ads.
For a stabilizer, I’m using a very cheap setup. This is a 4” V-Flite by Hi-Tek with a Cobra donut between it and the bow. This is quite adequate. The bow is very dead in the hand, after the shot. I’m sure there are many good options in this department.My string has only a loop and the string leeches on it. The loop is a homemade Catfish Loop, and it fits rather loosely. It like it for it’s adjustability and the fact that it can’t slip. For some reason, it is a quieter set-up then the standard nock set. It’s lighter and seems to actually help adsorb some of the string vibration. The loop will actually flip around to the bow side of the string, after the shot. This suggests to me that it may actually be adsorbing some of the string vibration in the process.
The next one is a big one. I added Moleskin between any accessories that gave a metal to metal contact with another accessory or the riser. This made a noticeable difference. It’s easy to see in the photo, because I didn’t take the time to trim it carefully before applying – so you could, uh, see it better in the photo. <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle> yeah right…
The next feature is a product of Martin’s limb pocket design. They came up with a connection between the limb and limb pocket that locks the limb in place, yet allows very little contact between the two. The limb only touches the limb pocket in two very small areas. The bottom of the limb has ball-bearing-like objects that fit into matched hollow spots in the limb pockets. These pockets are greased to allow smooth movement and a less direct contact. The limb bolt going through the limb, locks the limb in place. The limb does not and cannot touch the sides of the limb pockets. This makes the back of the limb pockets unnecessary.
Another notable thing about all my bows is the lack of a bow quiver. Bow quivers increase noise, allow arrow to rattle and so I don’t put one on my bow. It makes a difference in the overall noise, even if the arrows happen not to rattle on the shot.
I know that all this seems like such easy, yet insignificant stuff, but when you put it all together it really makes a difference. It’s a real low cost way of getting a cheaper bow to sound like a $700 bow. I welcome any additional hints and tips for quieting your bow.
11-06-2002, 11:37 AM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: So, how quiet is your bow?
Nice post Straightarrow. Call me a child but I just love pictues. <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle> Some useful tips as well. I had been using some thin rubber "pads" between some of my accessories...such as the rest/riser and quiver mount and sight but haven't put them on lately. Maybe I should...but that will wait until after the season is over. I had some other "devices" that I inserted under the grip and in some of the riser cutouts but that type of experimenting usually starts exciting me in late January and February.
Thanks again for the post.
Call me a child but I just love pictues. <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle> Some useful tips as well. I had been using some thin rubber "pads" between some of my accessories...such as the rest/riser and quiver mount and sight but haven't put them on lately. Maybe I should...but that will wait until after the season is over. I had some other "devices" that I inserted under the grip and in some of the riser cutouts but that type of experimenting usually starts exciting me in late January and February.Thanks again for the post.
11-06-2002, 12:16 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: So, how quiet is your bow?
Great post!
You and I ahve been through this before while I value a quiet bow, I don't consider it my top priority. Accuracy first and foremost, and within reason a flat trajectory are my top two.
I still believe as far as my experience goes (both southern and northeastern whitetails) that animal attitude is far more important re: string jumping than how quiet your bow is...in a general sense.
ALOT of big bucks have been killed with some loud designs..Darton and Oneida in particular.
On a similar note: I had the exact same bow you do...Panther Mag..29" module, 70 pounds peak..paid the exact same amount you did too! Great shooting short bow, but IMO was noticeably above average regarding noise even when the cam was timed properly and set to peak weight. I had it decked out in all simms gear (leeches, limbsavers), a loop,Sorbotek stabilizer, solid rest and sight, only thing was nothing in the limb pocket. I was also shooting full length 2413's with vanes and 125 grain heads out of it (500 grains plus). It still had a failry obvious "plock" sound...which is typical of Martins.
Now as I said the bow SHOT fantastic, but my MM which was 25-30 FPS faster was not any louder when set-up exactly the same. I'm using the MM as an example as it has the closest specs (axle to axle, brace height, etc). Other Bows I've owned in the same class: Hoyt HavocTec, PSE Enforcer, MQ32, Pearson D-back, etc have been much quieter than both the Martin and the Mighty Mite. IN fact the D-back is probably the quietest bow I've shot..ever.
Please understand my purpose here is NOT to rag on your set-up, simply to say that there can be, and ARE quiet and fast set-ups out there. My Patriot and BKII though both 60 LB models were quieter than the Panther yet they still produced more speed and energy than the 70LB Martin (in fact My local Hoyt & Mathews dealer had to shoot em both because he could not believe how quiet they were for the speed and arrow weight)..I had them both set-up SOLID(Solid accessories are VERY important) Look at the Mathews line..The Legacy in particular. The new Hoyts, etc.
Quiet IS a very important trait for hunting bow, but sacrificing performance and accuracy for quietness is not needed with many bows designs out out there today, IMHO.
JeffB
You and I ahve been through this before
while I value a quiet bow, I don't consider it my top priority. Accuracy first and foremost, and within reason a flat trajectory are my top two. I still believe as far as my experience goes (both southern and northeastern whitetails) that animal attitude is far more important re: string jumping than how quiet your bow is...in a general sense.
ALOT of big bucks have been killed with some loud designs..Darton and Oneida in particular.
On a similar note: I had the exact same bow you do...Panther Mag..29" module, 70 pounds peak..paid the exact same amount you did too! Great shooting short bow, but IMO was noticeably above average regarding noise even when the cam was timed properly and set to peak weight. I had it decked out in all simms gear (leeches, limbsavers), a loop,Sorbotek stabilizer, solid rest and sight, only thing was nothing in the limb pocket. I was also shooting full length 2413's with vanes and 125 grain heads out of it (500 grains plus). It still had a failry obvious "plock" sound...which is typical of Martins.
Now as I said the bow SHOT fantastic, but my MM which was 25-30 FPS faster was not any louder when set-up exactly the same. I'm using the MM as an example as it has the closest specs (axle to axle, brace height, etc). Other Bows I've owned in the same class: Hoyt HavocTec, PSE Enforcer, MQ32, Pearson D-back, etc have been much quieter than both the Martin and the Mighty Mite. IN fact the D-back is probably the quietest bow I've shot..ever.
Please understand my purpose here is NOT to rag on your set-up, simply to say that there can be, and ARE quiet and fast set-ups out there. My Patriot and BKII though both 60 LB models were quieter than the Panther yet they still produced more speed and energy than the 70LB Martin (in fact My local Hoyt & Mathews dealer had to shoot em both because he could not believe how quiet they were for the speed and arrow weight)..I had them both set-up SOLID(Solid accessories are VERY important) Look at the Mathews line..The Legacy in particular. The new Hoyts, etc.
Quiet IS a very important trait for hunting bow, but sacrificing performance and accuracy for quietness is not needed with many bows designs out out there today, IMHO.
JeffB
11-06-2002, 12:53 PM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Walker LA USA
Posts: 443
RE: So, how quiet is your bow?
Jeff,I would agree that the animals attitude is the main factor in "string jumping".I for one have never had a calm deer jump the bowstring.Nice post straight arrow.I like my bow to be as quiet as possible,but damn if I don't have a hunting buddy who shoots the noisiest bow I've ever heard and he he's killed a ton of deer with it.In his defense he's partially deaf in one ear so I don't think he even has a clue how noisy his set up is.I like to rag him all the time about the noise stunning the deer so the can't jump the string.
Billy
WHACKEM N STACKEM
Billy
WHACKEM N STACKEM
11-06-2002, 01:06 PM
#5
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: So, how quiet is your bow?
PAB,
Thanks! All the rubber pads probably work great depending on the design of the bow you're trying to tweak.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>ALOT of big bucks have been killed with some loud designs..Darton and Oneida in particular. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Jeff, no doubt, but in the same vein, many have been killed with inaccurate and slow set-ups. It's not so much can you kill a buck with the set-up, as much as how do you prefer to attack? How many deer do you think you'll lose because your set-up is slow vs. how many do you think you'll lose because your set-up is noisy. In 32 years, I've never lost one because my set-up was too slow and 11 years I used only a recurve. Speed is almost the least important factor in the decisions I make for my bow. I'll take what speed I can get, but I won't sacrifice quiet to get it. I'm always looking at other features before speed. In particular, I pay alot of attention to brace height, ATA length and the feel of the grip in addition to the quietness of the bow.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>On a similar note: I had the exact same bow you do...Panther Mag..29" module, 70 pounds peak..paid the exact same amount you did too! Great shooting short bow, but IMO was noticeably above average regarding noise even when the cam was timed properly and set to peak weight. I had it decked out in all simms gear (leeches, limbsavers), a loop,Sorbotek stabilizer, solid rest and sight, only thing was nothing in the limb pocket. I was also shooting full length 2413's with vanes and 125 grain heads out of it (500 grains plus). It still had a failry obvious "plock" sound...which is typical of Martins.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I have some buddies with the same bow and theirs sound a lot like your description. Like I said, so did mine, before I stripped the string, threw away the quiver, added the moleskin and the other stuff. This bow no longer sounds like the typical Martin. It is quieter than the Bowtechs, the Mathews, and the Hoyts I'm standing next to while shooting. My point is, if I can do this to a cheap Martin, then just think of the possibilites with a bow that is even quieter out of the box.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Please understand my purpose here is NOT to rag on your set-up, simply to say that there can be, and ARE quiet and fast set-ups out there.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I agree. There are many faster than mine and also quiet. Most are a lot more expensive. If someone happens to have a cheaper model that makes a bit of noise and seriously wants to eliminate some of the noise, then it will be a lot cheaper to do some of these modifications, then to buy a new bow.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Quiet IS a very important trait for hunting bow, but sacrificing performance and accuracy for quietness is not needed with many bows designs out out there today, IMHO.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
To me, performance means hitting what you're aiming at, in this case a target capable of moving. I take it, you're referring more to speed. The question is, how much performance and accuracy am I sacrificing to get the level of quietness I want? I think very little, since I would be shooting the Martin whether I had modified anything or not. Bowhunters can take the bow they have and improve the quietness without sacrificing much of anything else. Now, if we're talking about going out and buying a new bow, that's a whole different story. I'll still disagree about the importance of an extra 20 or 30 fps. However, there are many good choices that will perform good, while making very little noise right out of the box, and yet are not super fast. Another thing about the way I set up my bows, they crono close to the IBO speeds advertised. I'm shooting them without noisy peeps, brass nocks and other things that slow the arrow down. At a 29.5" draw, I can actually get 300 fps out of this setup when set at 70 lbs and shooting a 350 grain arrow.
Thanks! All the rubber pads probably work great depending on the design of the bow you're trying to tweak.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>ALOT of big bucks have been killed with some loud designs..Darton and Oneida in particular. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Jeff, no doubt, but in the same vein, many have been killed with inaccurate and slow set-ups. It's not so much can you kill a buck with the set-up, as much as how do you prefer to attack? How many deer do you think you'll lose because your set-up is slow vs. how many do you think you'll lose because your set-up is noisy. In 32 years, I've never lost one because my set-up was too slow and 11 years I used only a recurve. Speed is almost the least important factor in the decisions I make for my bow. I'll take what speed I can get, but I won't sacrifice quiet to get it. I'm always looking at other features before speed. In particular, I pay alot of attention to brace height, ATA length and the feel of the grip in addition to the quietness of the bow.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>On a similar note: I had the exact same bow you do...Panther Mag..29" module, 70 pounds peak..paid the exact same amount you did too! Great shooting short bow, but IMO was noticeably above average regarding noise even when the cam was timed properly and set to peak weight. I had it decked out in all simms gear (leeches, limbsavers), a loop,Sorbotek stabilizer, solid rest and sight, only thing was nothing in the limb pocket. I was also shooting full length 2413's with vanes and 125 grain heads out of it (500 grains plus). It still had a failry obvious "plock" sound...which is typical of Martins.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I have some buddies with the same bow and theirs sound a lot like your description. Like I said, so did mine, before I stripped the string, threw away the quiver, added the moleskin and the other stuff. This bow no longer sounds like the typical Martin. It is quieter than the Bowtechs, the Mathews, and the Hoyts I'm standing next to while shooting. My point is, if I can do this to a cheap Martin, then just think of the possibilites with a bow that is even quieter out of the box.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Please understand my purpose here is NOT to rag on your set-up, simply to say that there can be, and ARE quiet and fast set-ups out there.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I agree. There are many faster than mine and also quiet. Most are a lot more expensive. If someone happens to have a cheaper model that makes a bit of noise and seriously wants to eliminate some of the noise, then it will be a lot cheaper to do some of these modifications, then to buy a new bow.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Quiet IS a very important trait for hunting bow, but sacrificing performance and accuracy for quietness is not needed with many bows designs out out there today, IMHO.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
To me, performance means hitting what you're aiming at, in this case a target capable of moving. I take it, you're referring more to speed. The question is, how much performance and accuracy am I sacrificing to get the level of quietness I want? I think very little, since I would be shooting the Martin whether I had modified anything or not. Bowhunters can take the bow they have and improve the quietness without sacrificing much of anything else. Now, if we're talking about going out and buying a new bow, that's a whole different story. I'll still disagree about the importance of an extra 20 or 30 fps. However, there are many good choices that will perform good, while making very little noise right out of the box, and yet are not super fast. Another thing about the way I set up my bows, they crono close to the IBO speeds advertised. I'm shooting them without noisy peeps, brass nocks and other things that slow the arrow down. At a 29.5" draw, I can actually get 300 fps out of this setup when set at 70 lbs and shooting a 350 grain arrow.
11-06-2002, 01:10 PM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alvo Nebraska USA
Posts: 2,057
RE: So, how quiet is your bow?
My Patriot is very quiet, I shot over the back of a red fox last night, little sucker, at 7 yards from the base of my tree and I was about 19 feet up. It was a pretty sever downward angle and I had lots of clothes on that were fairly snug and just didn't get down far enough. At the shot he jumped and trotted about 8 feet and stood there looking around. I had plenty of time for a second shot but he was behind some limbs. I'd say the bow was quiet enough for him.
11-06-2002, 02:05 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: So, how quiet is your bow?
SA,
I think the disagreement here is different experiences in the field.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> How many deer do you think you'll lose because your set-up is slow vs. how many do you think you'll lose because your set-up is noisy? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I too had a stint with traditional gear, though not as long as yours. I’ve had as many, but not necessarily more deer jump the string with a 160 FPS ultra quiet longbow (Morrison and Allegheny Mountain if you keep up with such things) shooting 520 grain Norway Pine shafts as I have with a noisy 300 FPS bow shooting Beman Diva C’s.
In both cases… just a handful. In my experiences, the animal’s attitude was the main factor, not equipment. I shot when the animal was nervous, or too alert for whatever other reason. IN each of the circumstances it’s quite possible on e way or another the equipment MIGHT have made a difference had I been shooting something different, but there is no evidence to rule out the contrary, either.
In your original post you said <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I have been willing to sacrifice both speed and a little accuracy, if necessary…. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
In my experience accuracy is relative to the situation, and of the utmost importance. If you are shooting 1” groups on the range, in a hunting situation due to circumstances that “group” might grow to 4” or even larger. Now If I’m willing to sacrifice to say 2 to 3” on the range, now how big would my “groups” be? The tighter you are in the first place, the less impact the circumstances will have in the field. I’m not willing to sacrifice ANYTHING, for accuracy. All things being equal where you put the arrow is what counts be it a deer, or a target. If I can do that at 280 FPS and not have an overly noisy set-up so be it, 300 FPS is better. I prefer the flat trajectory for one reason: I have to think less or basically not at all, regarding yardage. Especially when I hunt on the ground. I generally have split second to draw, and no time tio worry about which pin to choose. Yep, I can pre-range, yep, I also get “goofy” when a deer comes my way. I want to think about ONE thing: hitting the spot I want to. A flatter trajectory helps me do that.
Your comments regarding inexpensive bows I agree with wholeheartedly. It’s MUCH cheaper to silence something you have than buy a new bow. However from my experience I don’t think all inexpensive bows are necessarily noisy. I’ve shot some 200 to 300 dollar bows that are extremely quiet once just given a good stab, some limbsavers and leeches or whiskers and not having to “resort” to tearing the bow down to line the pockets, or buying a new string. (PSE Nova, and some of the cheaper Pearson models for example). My point here is again, that going to drastic measures to silence a bow is IME, and IMO, not needed..or should I say, should not take precedence over other factors such as pure accuracy, and range estimation.
Again, I have no qualms with your methods of silencing a bow, just that I don’t agree (again, In my experience, we obviously differ in that regard) regarding the level of importance given to it by many archers. Yes, it’s important, No I don’t think sacrificing things like accuracy and overly reducing the speed of the bow in favor of silence is the right way to go about things. All three things at the least should be given equal consideration.
RE: the Martin. Actually I had a Tiger Twist put on mine, it helped some but the noise part I feel is mostly from the limbs, the pockets, and the rockers that Martin uses. Your padding of the pocket is something that I HAD to do many years ago, most notably on some Darton bows I hunted with. Yep it works. I realize you were speaking in terms of cost, and quieting down your existing model, and again I agree with that. When cost is taken out of the equation though, I’m not sure this will make or break your deer hunt (more than just about anything else like what brand peep you use for a weird example) with the vast majority of bows we have today.
While my set-ups are also very “clean” re: stuff on the string, I think you got yourself one built by George Ryals himself <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>, As mine at 29” struggled to hit 285 FPS at 5 grains w/ the 29” module and just a loop.
My definition of performance includes the characteristics of speed, accuracy, and energy. Not necessarily in that order.
As always on this matter we shall have to agree to disagree. Just putting out some food for thought <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
J
I think the disagreement here is different experiences in the field.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> How many deer do you think you'll lose because your set-up is slow vs. how many do you think you'll lose because your set-up is noisy? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I too had a stint with traditional gear, though not as long as yours. I’ve had as many, but not necessarily more deer jump the string with a 160 FPS ultra quiet longbow (Morrison and Allegheny Mountain if you keep up with such things) shooting 520 grain Norway Pine shafts as I have with a noisy 300 FPS bow shooting Beman Diva C’s.
In both cases… just a handful. In my experiences, the animal’s attitude was the main factor, not equipment. I shot when the animal was nervous, or too alert for whatever other reason. IN each of the circumstances it’s quite possible on e way or another the equipment MIGHT have made a difference had I been shooting something different, but there is no evidence to rule out the contrary, either.
In your original post you said <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I have been willing to sacrifice both speed and a little accuracy, if necessary…. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
In my experience accuracy is relative to the situation, and of the utmost importance. If you are shooting 1” groups on the range, in a hunting situation due to circumstances that “group” might grow to 4” or even larger. Now If I’m willing to sacrifice to say 2 to 3” on the range, now how big would my “groups” be? The tighter you are in the first place, the less impact the circumstances will have in the field. I’m not willing to sacrifice ANYTHING, for accuracy. All things being equal where you put the arrow is what counts be it a deer, or a target. If I can do that at 280 FPS and not have an overly noisy set-up so be it, 300 FPS is better. I prefer the flat trajectory for one reason: I have to think less or basically not at all, regarding yardage. Especially when I hunt on the ground. I generally have split second to draw, and no time tio worry about which pin to choose. Yep, I can pre-range, yep, I also get “goofy” when a deer comes my way. I want to think about ONE thing: hitting the spot I want to. A flatter trajectory helps me do that.
Your comments regarding inexpensive bows I agree with wholeheartedly. It’s MUCH cheaper to silence something you have than buy a new bow. However from my experience I don’t think all inexpensive bows are necessarily noisy. I’ve shot some 200 to 300 dollar bows that are extremely quiet once just given a good stab, some limbsavers and leeches or whiskers and not having to “resort” to tearing the bow down to line the pockets, or buying a new string. (PSE Nova, and some of the cheaper Pearson models for example). My point here is again, that going to drastic measures to silence a bow is IME, and IMO, not needed..or should I say, should not take precedence over other factors such as pure accuracy, and range estimation.
Again, I have no qualms with your methods of silencing a bow, just that I don’t agree (again, In my experience, we obviously differ in that regard) regarding the level of importance given to it by many archers. Yes, it’s important, No I don’t think sacrificing things like accuracy and overly reducing the speed of the bow in favor of silence is the right way to go about things. All three things at the least should be given equal consideration.
RE: the Martin. Actually I had a Tiger Twist put on mine, it helped some but the noise part I feel is mostly from the limbs, the pockets, and the rockers that Martin uses. Your padding of the pocket is something that I HAD to do many years ago, most notably on some Darton bows I hunted with. Yep it works. I realize you were speaking in terms of cost, and quieting down your existing model, and again I agree with that. When cost is taken out of the equation though, I’m not sure this will make or break your deer hunt (more than just about anything else like what brand peep you use for a weird example) with the vast majority of bows we have today.
While my set-ups are also very “clean” re: stuff on the string, I think you got yourself one built by George Ryals himself <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>, As mine at 29” struggled to hit 285 FPS at 5 grains w/ the 29” module and just a loop.
My definition of performance includes the characteristics of speed, accuracy, and energy. Not necessarily in that order.
As always on this matter we shall have to agree to disagree. Just putting out some food for thought <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
J
11-06-2002, 04:54 PM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Walker LA USA
Posts: 443
RE: So, how quiet is your bow?
Straightarrow,how about some pics and instructions on tying that catfish loop.I'm thinking about swithcing to a loop for next season. I would agree that anything you can do to make a bow quieter is a plus.There are so many bows out there today that are fast and quiet that I really don't think you have to sacrifice much in the performance of the bow to get it quiet enough for hunting.For me it's not so much speed but enegry.I am drawlength challenged and limited in how much poundage I can shoot because of a bad shoulder.In the past I've settled for a middle of the road bow in performance and could get decent speed shooting enough weight.Now that I am limited to the poundage I can draw I want a bow with a higher level of performance so I can get a good amount of energy and speed out of my limitations.While I've allways viewed accuracy as being very important,If I have to trade a little accuracy to get more energy to drive that arrow I will.I mean on a deer it does'nt matter much if you hit the 10 ring or the 9 at 30 yds,it's still a dead deer.I would liken the analagy to a hunting rifle with a target load that shoots 1/2" moa to a high energy hunting load that shoots 1 1/2" moa.I'll take the latter.I too like to shoot 1 pin out to 30 yds.It's just one less thing to worry about.So speed is somewhat important also.In the end it's just what you feel comfortable with,there is no right and wrong set up.Many a deer has fallen to a wood arrow and a flint tip.It's all what you make of it.
Billy
WHACKEM N STACKEM
Billy
WHACKEM N STACKEM
11-07-2002, 05:15 AM
#9
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: So, how quiet is your bow?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
SA,
I think the disagreement here is different experiences in the field.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Jeff,
That is very true. I never meant this to be a discussion of speed vs. quietness. I guess that was brought on by my statement that I choose a bow based on other factors, ahead of speed. Like you said, our experiences are different and quite possibly so are our hunting styles. I'll be the first to say, that not everyone should choose a bow based on what I find important. However for me, it works and is what I want, so it is correct in my situation.
My average shot is probably 10-12 yards. At that distance, none of this matters. I don't need speed, accuracy, quietness, forgiveness, high KE, or any of the other stuff. I could probably take many of these deer with a spear. So, when I look at all these somewhat irrelevant factors for my style of hunting, I simply prefer a quiet, low vibration bow. Even if the noisy ones don't scare any deer, they scare me.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
For those who aren't after speed, you can have a quieter bow, by doing some of this stuff. And, for those who do care about speed, you can still have a quieter bow by doing some of this stuff.
Cajunbhtr
Go to this link to get info on the Catfish Loop
http://www.oneidaeaglebows.com/oneid.../quieting.html
It's a great loop. You can customize the thickness, length and material to fit your preferences. It will last for thousands of shots and a new one is easily put on in about 15 minutes. Usually it takes one or two to practice with, before you learn to serve it tight enough. I use mine with two tied on string nocks. This way it is easily threaded up or down the string to adjust nock height when tunning the bow. My brother put one on his bow without the string nocks and when he had it tuned perfectly, he just cemented it in place. He served it very tightly to begin with, and it has stayed in place very well with the added glue.
SA,
I think the disagreement here is different experiences in the field.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Jeff,
That is very true. I never meant this to be a discussion of speed vs. quietness. I guess that was brought on by my statement that I choose a bow based on other factors, ahead of speed. Like you said, our experiences are different and quite possibly so are our hunting styles. I'll be the first to say, that not everyone should choose a bow based on what I find important. However for me, it works and is what I want, so it is correct in my situation.
My average shot is probably 10-12 yards. At that distance, none of this matters. I don't need speed, accuracy, quietness, forgiveness, high KE, or any of the other stuff. I could probably take many of these deer with a spear. So, when I look at all these somewhat irrelevant factors for my style of hunting, I simply prefer a quiet, low vibration bow. Even if the noisy ones don't scare any deer, they scare me.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
For those who aren't after speed, you can have a quieter bow, by doing some of this stuff. And, for those who do care about speed, you can still have a quieter bow by doing some of this stuff.
Cajunbhtr
Go to this link to get info on the Catfish Loop
http://www.oneidaeaglebows.com/oneid.../quieting.html
It's a great loop. You can customize the thickness, length and material to fit your preferences. It will last for thousands of shots and a new one is easily put on in about 15 minutes. Usually it takes one or two to practice with, before you learn to serve it tight enough. I use mine with two tied on string nocks. This way it is easily threaded up or down the string to adjust nock height when tunning the bow. My brother put one on his bow without the string nocks and when he had it tuned perfectly, he just cemented it in place. He served it very tightly to begin with, and it has stayed in place very well with the added glue.
11-07-2002, 03:31 PM
#10
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 858
RE: So, how quiet is your bow?
Great Post SA. I love all the little tricks.
I found a trick this year that might help too. I got a new ( to me) bow and liked everything about it except the grip. I took the wood grip off and wrapped where the grip was with cotton string. It took me a while, but I wrapped it so it fit my hand perfectly. I then wrapped the whole thing in a Sims Vibe...I don't know what it's called...Bumpy Gripper?! A wrap that's made for your grip anyway. Now I have a grip that's perfectly fitted to me and the added bonus was significant reduction in noise and vibration and nearly zero hand shock.
Trushot }}------>
I found a trick this year that might help too. I got a new ( to me) bow and liked everything about it except the grip. I took the wood grip off and wrapped where the grip was with cotton string. It took me a while, but I wrapped it so it fit my hand perfectly. I then wrapped the whole thing in a Sims Vibe...I don't know what it's called...Bumpy Gripper?! A wrap that's made for your grip anyway. Now I have a grip that's perfectly fitted to me and the added bonus was significant reduction in noise and vibration and nearly zero hand shock.
Trushot }}------>