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Old 10-17-2005, 08:23 PM   #101
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Default RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit

No, a correctly spined arrow and correctly set-up bow should launch like a rocket, especially if the shooter is using a release aid, finger shooters will always have some flex! An arrow that is too weak in spine will leave like a wet noodle, hence bad contact with the rest during launch.

we made it boys, 100!!!!
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Old 10-17-2005, 08:44 PM   #102
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Default RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit

I love the Bisquit and I need to say it will make vanes wavy but I still get real nice groups. I practice with broadheads since I hunt with them and slice my share of vanes but that's part of being accurate! It's a must to shoot with cock feather-vane up.
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Old 10-17-2005, 09:14 PM   #103
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Default RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Howler

No, a correctly spined arrow and correctly set-up bow should launch like a rocket, especially if the shooter is using a release aid, finger shooters will always have some flex! An arrow that is too weak in spine will leave like a wet noodle, hence bad contact with the rest during launch.

we made it boys, 100!!!!

Ehhh wrong !

copied and pasted.


Arrow Spine: Why Does it Matter?

A properly spined arrow is simply safer, and flies better than an improperly spined arrow. To begin, if an arrow is too weak (underspined) for a particular bow, there is a risk that the arrow could break when shot. The more grossly underspined the arrow, the higher the risk of breakage. In a few rare instances, arrow failures have even resulted in serious injuries. If your arrow breaks upon release, there is a remote possibility that the remaining half of the arrow could be driven through your hand or arm. Ouch!!! To avoid the embarrassment of ever needing to explain to an emergency room doctor how you managed to shoot yourself with your own bow, we strongly suggest you NEVER shoot an arrow that's underspined for your bow.

But aside from avoiding the freak accidents, choosing a proper arrow spine will give you the best possible arrow flight and result in dramatically improved accuracy. Most people think an arrow flies just like it looks when at rest - perfectly straight. Hence the phrase "straight as an arrow". But nothing could be further from the truth. Once fired from a bow, an arrow immediately begins flexing and oscillating. That's not a defect. Arrows are supposed to flex and bend some. In fact, with respect to accuracy, an overspined (too stiff) arrow actually flies just as badly as an underspined (too limber) arrow. So don't choose an overly stiff arrow either, tough guy. Choosing an over- or underspined arrow yields absolutely no benefit - regardless of what you hunt or how you shoot.

Each arrow bends and flexes in a particular cycle as it leaves the bow (archer's paradox). In slow-motion video it becomes obvious - especially for finger shooters. An overspined arrow undercycles and leaves the bow with it's tail too close to the bow's riser usually resulting in serious fletching contact as it passes the arrow rest. An underspined arrow overcycles and the arrow's tail leaves the bow too far away from the riser with similar results the opposite way. Arrows fired with a mechanical release often cycle more vertically rather than horizontally, but the business of timing the cycle is still the same. When the spine is just perfect, the fletchings zip through the rest unimpeded and the arrow flies.....uh, well.......straight as an arrow. So we have to get the spine right.



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Old 10-17-2005, 09:38 PM   #104
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Default RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit

I'll say the same thing i've been saying since working at Gander Mt. and seeing all the problems.... THEY'RE JUNK, THEY'LL ALWAYS BE JUNK.....you can't go wrong with a dropaway.
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Old 10-17-2005, 09:45 PM   #105
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Default RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit

Let's see, I said
Quote:
No, a correctly spined arrow and correctly set-up bow should launch like a rocket,
and you just pasted this
Quote:
When the spine is just perfect, the fletchings zip through the rest unimpeded and the arrow flies.....uh, well.......straight as an arrow.
mSo I said rocket, they said arrow. It's the same Z!
And I also said
Quote:
finger shooters will always have some flex!
and you pasted this
Quote:
Each arrow bends and flexes in a particular cycle as it leaves the bow (archer's paradox). In slow-motion video it becomes obvious - especially for finger shooters.
and then I also said this
Quote:
An arrow that is too weak in spine will leave like a wet noodle, hence bad contact with the rest during launch.
and you pasted this
Quote:
To begin, if an arrow is too weak (underspined) for a particular bow, there is a risk that the arrow could break when shot. The more grossly underspined the arrow, the higher the risk of breakage.
Let's under line grossly under-spined arrow. If was not so grossly under-spined, it would leave the bow looking like a wet noodle!! We don't hear too much about broken arrows from being so grossly under-spined now do we. Because most of us look at the recommended arrow charts, which get us close to having the right arrow!
And, when you shoot an underspined arrow through a WB, there is going to be a lot of contact, no two ways about it. A lot of contact equals wavy vanes and poor arrow flight.
So Z, please read my post. I think what I said was right on, and what you pasted just backed it up.Try again!!
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Old 10-17-2005, 10:09 PM   #106
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Default RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit

I asked this
Quote:
original: zrexpilot

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt a correctly spined arrow suppose to bend as it leaves the bow ?
and you said this.
[align=right]
[/align]
Quote:
ORIGINAL: Howler
No, a correctly spined arrow and correctly set-up bow should launch like a rocket,

and i pasted this.

Quote:
Once fired from a bow, an arrow immediately begins flexing and oscillating. That's not a defect. Arrows are supposed to flex and bend some.


you also said not especially if you use a release


Quote:
Quote:
ORIGINAL: Howler

especially if the shooter is using a release aid,

andI pasted this
Quote:
Arrows fired with a mechanical release often cycle more vertically rather than horizontally,


so how were you not wrong?
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Old 10-17-2005, 11:11 PM   #107
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Default RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit

I don't understand what arrow flexing (archer's paradox) has to do with fletching contact?An arrow flexing through a Whisker Biscuit is no different than an arrow flexing along a prong rest or a flipper or your knuckle for that matter. The rest is designed to allow that to happen just as a prong rest is.

Are you saying that unless you use a drop away rest you can't shoot straight?

Even though the arrow is flexingthe fletchings still contact the biscuitevenly and thus will still produce an accurate shot.

I alsodon't understand your need to try to provethe whisker Biscuit is a bad rest. I think all rests can and will produce good results if set up correctly. I choose the Whisker Biscuit because I can get good results (like any other rest) and yet still keep my arrow contained, so I am freeto position my bow any way I feel (more flexibility while hunting) and I'm not forced to keep my finger on the arrow or "reset" anything ifI draw and let down, or worry about that one chance it might come off while I drawetc...Bottom line is,it'sjust as good as any other type of rest. This has been proven over and over by members of the forum as well as competitive shooters.

I find it kinda funny how most of you out there will bad mouth mechanical broadheads with the same old story: "Why take a chance on it not opening" or "A fixed head is better,less to go wrong" but when it comes to a rest you bad moutha simple, basic, reliable rest and put your trust in a dropaway rest with more moving parts than any mechanical broadhead hasEVER had.

After getting mine set up correctly I have never had a problem with fletching wear or freezing or heat or anything. I have installed them on my other two bows with the same results.

I will ask this question again since nobody bothered to answer it the first time........Did I get lucky and buy three Whisker Biscuits that don't damage fletchings or did I setthem up correctly and thus aregetting good results from them?

Please answer.
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Old 10-18-2005, 02:09 AM   #108
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Default RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit

Quote:
ORIGINAL: zrexpilot

Quote:
ORIGINAL: BOWFANATIC

Quote:
The helical of the fletching and the length of each fletching as it contacts the WB can not be consistent shot to shot.
With the correct spined arrows and well tuned bow , it most certainly can and is consistant from shot to shot. That is the brilliance of the Whisker Biscuit! All three fletches will contact the biscuit the same way on every shot.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt a correctly spined arrow suppose to bend as it leaves the bow ?
No need for correction , you are correct.
I never said a correct spined arrow will shoot straight as an arrow (<pun intended) as it leaves the string. It wont leave the stringaseradically as an underspined arrow , ie wet noodle. The tail end (fletching end) of the arrow should stay straight as it launches through the rest if you have the correct spine. With the correct spine your fletchings will be going through the biscuit itselfthe same way (provided you follow a consistant nock procedure) every shot.
The problem people see with wavy vanes , torn fletches , and black scuff marks on the vanes , doesn't come from the biscuit itself. The problem comes from the outer ring holding the biscuit together meaning the fletching end of the arrow is fishtailing as it goes through the biscuit. A stiffer spine will correct this problem.
I'm not here to argue about the Whisker Biscuit , I'm really just trying to offer advice to those that want it. It can be a great rest , but you have to do your part also. And by that I don't mean modifications. I've never modified my WB in any way.It's no different than any other rest when it comes to selecting the proper spine arrow.

In case I forgot to mention it earlier , the MZE is an awesome rest!
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Old 10-18-2005, 05:01 AM   #109
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Default RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit

In my experience, shootingsmaller diameter carbons with helical fletching requires agood deal of care and experimentation to be sure the fletch avoids the black fibers. Once you acomplish that, therest performs as advertised. I recently switched to 2"Blazer vanes and my arrows fly as well with Montec BH upfront as with field points.
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Old 10-18-2005, 05:48 AM   #110
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Default RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit

don't know what else to say Z, your little pasted article contradicts itself, now doesn't it. It says right at the bottom, that a perfectly spined arrow will fly like an arrow, but yet it also says that there will be ossilation, no matter what. All I can say is I have a video, a very very slow motion video, showing arrows being launched with under spined, over spined, and perfectly spined arrows, and when the perfectly spinned arrow is shot, there is nearly no percieved bend/osciallation in the arrow.
I can't help it if your pasted article can't get it straight, but as you can see above, it clearly agrees with everything I stated to start with.
Get over it already, the WB is a great rest, for some!! It's obviously not for you, so let it die already!!
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