East Siberian lakis anyone have any experience with them
06-29-2017, 07:09 PM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 50
East Siberian lakis anyone have any experience with them
I know I am probably spelling the name wrong but they are a breed of hunting dogs from the far north are said to be a around dog used for small game brids and big game which in that area is hogs bear and mosse. What I like about them they are meant to be used in heavy cover use all of their sense and run totol quite. So the part I am wondering about if anyone has any experience with since they run quite and are said to be a pretty fast dog would they be able to bay a fox or coyote? Also I saw a video on YouTube about them on a fox hunt with 3 of them and it looks like they actually run it down and killed it so if anyone has any experience with would love to hear what you think.
07-01-2017, 12:13 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
Depends, Fox aren't often in open country. A Red Fox isn't all that fast. A Grey Fox is, so is a Yote, both can usually outrun most fast Dogs. Fox aren't marathon runners, most have a small chest (not a deep chest like a speed Dog). Most Red Fox don't have a chest larger than 14"
A reason they use large packs for Fox, Fox get into a thicket, Corn field or ripe grain field and play hide and seek, they are really good at it. They cross their own trail multiple times which throws off scent Hounds. The solution is to saturate the thicket with dogs, even then I've seen Fox refuse to break cover and run a pack of twenty or more dogs for 1/2 an hour or more, then sneak out of the thicket and get a 50 yards head start, while the dogs are still in the thicket running around in circles. Or a Fox goes someplace a normal sized Dog can't follow, they can be a lot like Rats, if they can get their head through a hole their body will follow. Fox live in burrows, which can be anywhere from 15 feet to fifty yards long (depending on how many generations have lived there). Once they make it into a burrow good luck getting them back out again (see footnote). The handicap for Fox is if they don't sneak off or make it to a burrow, they wear out before most Dogs do, they don't have the stamina (lungs) for a long chase.
Yotes tend to react in 3-4 different ways. Head for the hills at top speed, which few dogs can follow. Depends on how close the Yote gets before it takes off.
Sometimes they will sprint away and then stop to check their back trail. They may even circle a little. Yotes are territorial, and just opinion, their natural tendency to confront trespassers conflicts them sometimes. Basically they don't know whether to flee, fight or even kill and eat what confronts them. They may even skulk in closer out of curiosity or whatever. These are the ones where your Dogs have a chance.
The best results for me have been meeting encounters. The Yote is going someplace in the early evening, usually water after laying up most of the day, you get lucky, they get unlucky and you blunder into each other. Walk the edges of an Alfalfa field, usually a lot of Jack Rabbits around, Yote comes in hungry and not careful.
I wouldn't count on being really successful Dogging Yotes, I did it mostly because my Dogs loved it and I'd share a little of their joy. My neighbors were thankful. Kind of a new Sheriff in town type thing, Yotes learned to avoid our little community.
The trick is seeing them before they see/sense you. It happens sometimes, there are smart ones and dumb ones. Most wildlife sees, hears, smells or senses you way before you do them. IMO dogging Yotes is a low percentage undertaking, mostly done for the thrill of the chase.
I train my dogs not to run Deer. But calling a dog off of a game animal or predator they are normally allowed to hunt can be real iffy. Your dog is twice as fast as you are and has much better stamina. I've sat out there most of the night hoping my dogs come back, they always did eventually, but there were some anxious times. Affordable GPS trackers are relatively new, even then your dogs may be a mile or more away and still moving twice as fast as you can.
Footnote.
I have a good earth dog now, she will go right down a burrow, she loves it in there. I haven't had to dig her out yet. I have acquaintances who have lost dogs down burrows never to be seen again.
A reason they use large packs for Fox, Fox get into a thicket, Corn field or ripe grain field and play hide and seek, they are really good at it. They cross their own trail multiple times which throws off scent Hounds. The solution is to saturate the thicket with dogs, even then I've seen Fox refuse to break cover and run a pack of twenty or more dogs for 1/2 an hour or more, then sneak out of the thicket and get a 50 yards head start, while the dogs are still in the thicket running around in circles. Or a Fox goes someplace a normal sized Dog can't follow, they can be a lot like Rats, if they can get their head through a hole their body will follow. Fox live in burrows, which can be anywhere from 15 feet to fifty yards long (depending on how many generations have lived there). Once they make it into a burrow good luck getting them back out again (see footnote). The handicap for Fox is if they don't sneak off or make it to a burrow, they wear out before most Dogs do, they don't have the stamina (lungs) for a long chase.
Yotes tend to react in 3-4 different ways. Head for the hills at top speed, which few dogs can follow. Depends on how close the Yote gets before it takes off.
Sometimes they will sprint away and then stop to check their back trail. They may even circle a little. Yotes are territorial, and just opinion, their natural tendency to confront trespassers conflicts them sometimes. Basically they don't know whether to flee, fight or even kill and eat what confronts them. They may even skulk in closer out of curiosity or whatever. These are the ones where your Dogs have a chance.
The best results for me have been meeting encounters. The Yote is going someplace in the early evening, usually water after laying up most of the day, you get lucky, they get unlucky and you blunder into each other. Walk the edges of an Alfalfa field, usually a lot of Jack Rabbits around, Yote comes in hungry and not careful.
I wouldn't count on being really successful Dogging Yotes, I did it mostly because my Dogs loved it and I'd share a little of their joy. My neighbors were thankful. Kind of a new Sheriff in town type thing, Yotes learned to avoid our little community.
The trick is seeing them before they see/sense you. It happens sometimes, there are smart ones and dumb ones. Most wildlife sees, hears, smells or senses you way before you do them. IMO dogging Yotes is a low percentage undertaking, mostly done for the thrill of the chase.
I train my dogs not to run Deer. But calling a dog off of a game animal or predator they are normally allowed to hunt can be real iffy. Your dog is twice as fast as you are and has much better stamina. I've sat out there most of the night hoping my dogs come back, they always did eventually, but there were some anxious times. Affordable GPS trackers are relatively new, even then your dogs may be a mile or more away and still moving twice as fast as you can.
Footnote.
I have a good earth dog now, she will go right down a burrow, she loves it in there. I haven't had to dig her out yet. I have acquaintances who have lost dogs down burrows never to be seen again.
07-02-2017, 12:18 AM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
I don't actually know, I tend to think from the preys perspective (who, what, when, where and why) and then figure in most Dogs tendencies. Some Dogs cover a lot of territory and hope to flush something edible, flush and chase (spot/smell and point) or get lucky and blunder into game also on the move. Some follow their noses, either air scent or ground scent. Some stick their noses into any cover or crevice, try to find the ones who take deep cover and refuse to flush. Many Dogs use all the strategies, but most tend to one strategy predominantly. I have one now who is ear (sound dominant), I call her Radar.
Possible a Yote (like many animals) may hunker down, hide and hope to be bypassed by whatever is hunting them. Rabbits, Hare, Pheasant and other animals do this. I've seen a Yote do this rarely, either they are really good at it or it isn't in their nature. They do squat and stalk, but most I've seen are prowlers and not hiders. They tend to use their speed more than their stealth, especially when being hunted. A Yote isn't one of the faster hunters on the planet by accident, outrunning game or predation is likely why.
As far as nudging them along and pushing them gently, I see no point. If they are being pushed gently they know they are being stalked or hunted. Their senses are likely more attuned to their surroundings and they know the country. Trying to out Injun an Injun is unlikely to be a successful strategy IMO.
Going quiet, maybe, whatever you are hunting is making it's own noise, which tends to cover your noise (or whatever is hunting them). Pretty much what happens in a meeting encounter, you are moving as quiet as practical and whatever you are hunting is making it's own noise and masking whatever noise you are making. One thing most people tend to forget is noise can also be vibration through the ground and many animals feel it. Also don't underestimate their ears, A gently thump of your rifle on a piece of wood has spooked a lot of game over the centuries as has the click of a safety or a hammer. Wildlife needs to process the noises it hears, unnatural sounds tend to spook them. Hard not to make any noise. even if it is just grass brushing a leg.
One reason, when I want to move quiet, I use random steps, step step pause, step step step pause, step pause. No matter how quiet I am, I figure any game close by hears me, but may not process me as a threat. I try to use the same cadence as a Deer would when it is coming out of cover into a feeding area.
As a rule I figure most game within 400 yards knows I'm there. Sure there are exceptions, some animals screw up on occasion, some are just stupid. the young ones tend to screw up more than the older ones do (the survivors).
Just info, I've moved in quiet, set up down wind, in someplace with a good view (rifle range 4-500 yards) and never saw squat. Then very quietly moved to the top of a ridge line and seen what looked like a Zoo in the next canyon/valley. Someway or the other all of the game in my original area had vacated as soon as I moved in, without me seeing them do it. Most times I set up in a likely area and ambush something wandering through. Unless the game is feeding or sleeping, sneaking up on them is IMO a low percentage strategy.
Possible a Yote (like many animals) may hunker down, hide and hope to be bypassed by whatever is hunting them. Rabbits, Hare, Pheasant and other animals do this. I've seen a Yote do this rarely, either they are really good at it or it isn't in their nature. They do squat and stalk, but most I've seen are prowlers and not hiders. They tend to use their speed more than their stealth, especially when being hunted. A Yote isn't one of the faster hunters on the planet by accident, outrunning game or predation is likely why.
As far as nudging them along and pushing them gently, I see no point. If they are being pushed gently they know they are being stalked or hunted. Their senses are likely more attuned to their surroundings and they know the country. Trying to out Injun an Injun is unlikely to be a successful strategy IMO.
Going quiet, maybe, whatever you are hunting is making it's own noise, which tends to cover your noise (or whatever is hunting them). Pretty much what happens in a meeting encounter, you are moving as quiet as practical and whatever you are hunting is making it's own noise and masking whatever noise you are making. One thing most people tend to forget is noise can also be vibration through the ground and many animals feel it. Also don't underestimate their ears, A gently thump of your rifle on a piece of wood has spooked a lot of game over the centuries as has the click of a safety or a hammer. Wildlife needs to process the noises it hears, unnatural sounds tend to spook them. Hard not to make any noise. even if it is just grass brushing a leg.
One reason, when I want to move quiet, I use random steps, step step pause, step step step pause, step pause. No matter how quiet I am, I figure any game close by hears me, but may not process me as a threat. I try to use the same cadence as a Deer would when it is coming out of cover into a feeding area.
As a rule I figure most game within 400 yards knows I'm there. Sure there are exceptions, some animals screw up on occasion, some are just stupid. the young ones tend to screw up more than the older ones do (the survivors).
Just info, I've moved in quiet, set up down wind, in someplace with a good view (rifle range 4-500 yards) and never saw squat. Then very quietly moved to the top of a ridge line and seen what looked like a Zoo in the next canyon/valley. Someway or the other all of the game in my original area had vacated as soon as I moved in, without me seeing them do it. Most times I set up in a likely area and ambush something wandering through. Unless the game is feeding or sleeping, sneaking up on them is IMO a low percentage strategy.
07-18-2017, 07:56 AM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,952
Esl
East Siberian Laika have long been on my list of dog's I'd like to try. I know that they are the preferred laika in parts of Russia. Where they are used for Moose, Boar, Bear, and fur. They can bay Grouse etc. but Drahthaar's and Kurtzhaar's have replaced them for that job. There were some Russian fellows posting on the Hunting life from the Moscow area. They used Laika's but I'm not sure if the were eastarn, or western.
Stateside, West Siberian Laika's are somewhat common. Here is a link to some of the conversations here which can provide you with contact to people who hunt them.
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/sear...chid=2410904As
Another breed you might be interested in is the Swedish Elk (moose) hound.
Always Kyboy, good luck with your search.
Stateside, West Siberian Laika's are somewhat common. Here is a link to some of the conversations here which can provide you with contact to people who hunt them.
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/sear...chid=2410904As
Another breed you might be interested in is the Swedish Elk (moose) hound.
Always Kyboy, good luck with your search.
