Good Poiting Breeds
08-03-2015, 04:04 AM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: south eastern PA
Posts: 15,436
I don't know if this site will be too helpful on that subject. In the few states where dogs are allowed for deer hunting, they use mostly hounds. I have never heard of pointers being used for deer. In states that allow dogs which isn't many, the dogs are used to go into the thick stuff and run the deer by the hunters who are on stand waiting. Pointing breeds are considered bird dogs and we go to great lengths to make sure our pointing dogs do not bother with deer.
08-03-2015, 04:47 AM
#3
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: idaho
Posts: 2,773
in my opinion the only good dog is a dead dog. the same is true of most pet lovers.they are an inconsiderate bunch, hint noone loves your dog as much as you do.I tell everyone I KNOW, THEY ARE WELCOME to my home anytime but their PETS ARE NOT.that said I will tolerate your(pet lovers in general) right to have one , so long as , YOU KEEP THEM FROM HNI Rule 1 Poor Language edited by JW ON MY YARD. if not , they will be dispatched. I would state WHAT I REALLY THINK but it would only get me banned
Last edited by JW; 08-03-2015 at 05:17 AM. Reason: HNI Rule 1
08-03-2015, 05:14 AM
#4
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7,437
http://www.vdd-gna.org/
The Deutsch-Drahthaar was created in Germany in the late 19th century by a small group of dedicated breeders who set out to develop a versatile hunting dog that would satisfy all aspects of German hunting in field, forest, and water. This group of breeders succeeded in creating a versatile hunting dog that took its traits from the best dogs of the existing coarse hair breeds, cross bred with the shorthair blood. These ancestors included the Stichelhaar, Pudelpointer, Griffon, and the Deutsch-Kurzhaar .
The Deutsch-Drahthaar is a mid-sized, substantial dog. The height at shoulder varies from around 61 to 68 cm for males, and 57 to 64 cm for females. The coat is generally wiry, and tightly fit with a thick under wool. This coat was developed to provide optimal protection form external influences such as moisture, cold and heat, as well as thorns, brush and insects. The extended “eyebrows” and the typical beard give the DD his characteristic appearance. The breed has a variety of colorations. They are: brown and white or black and white ticked usually with some solid patches, and solid brown with or without a white chest patch.
A group of breeders founded the Verein Deutsch-Drahthaar (VDD) in May 1902. The driving force behind the Deutsch-Drahthaar, Freiherr Sigismund of Zedlitz and Neukirch, demanded that the primary breeding goal of the hunting dog be versatile performance ability. His thoughts became the principle of the VDD breeding program: “through performance to standard”. This principle is still upheld today, with registered breeders following a tradition of required performance and physical evaluation for all of the dogs used in the breeding program.
Many breeders of the German Wirehaired Pointer (GWP) errantly refer to their breed as Drahthaar. In addition to significant differences in breed standard, the Wirehair has been bred without regulation or restriction since the late 1950’s, but especially without the performance testing that proves the ability of the Drahthaar. After years of unrestricted breeding and no versatile performance standards the German Wirehaired Pointer has evolved into a distinctly separate breed.
Today’s DD is the dog most frequently used by the German hunting establishment, and is rapidly gaining popularity elsewhere, and that is not without reason. The Deutsch-Drahthaar is a passionate, hard-working dog. They are noted for their endurance and willingness to obey, as well as the ability to concentrate on the work at hand. After persistently searching the field with a sensitive nose, the DD shows the game by pointing, so that the hunter comes to a calm shot. Shot birds are hunted down and retrieved to the master. In particular, DD’s exhibit the characteristic of a retriever of lost game. They do this by their inbred capacity to track and pursue (and even dispatch) wounded game persistently and uncompromisingly in some of the most difficult conditions. This saves the game from unnecessary suffering. Their endurance, swimming ability and heavy coat also make them well suited to waterfowl hunting in the most adverse conditions. They are also used and trained to blood track wounded game including deer, fox and rabbits.
While the Deutsch-Drahthaar is a superb hunting companion, they are also well suited as a family dog. DD’s are normally gentle and friendly with children and other dogs, and are known to become protective of their “family” and home. Their intelligence and calm manner help them in adjusting to various living conditions. VDD Breeding Regulations specify that DD’s who show unwarranted aggressiveness toward people or other dogs are to be removed from the breeding program, so these traits do not get passed on.
As with all genuine hunting/working dogs, the DD needs legitimate specialty training and consistent guidance. Only when given sufficient training and activity does he seem content.
JW
The Deutsch-Drahthaar was created in Germany in the late 19th century by a small group of dedicated breeders who set out to develop a versatile hunting dog that would satisfy all aspects of German hunting in field, forest, and water. This group of breeders succeeded in creating a versatile hunting dog that took its traits from the best dogs of the existing coarse hair breeds, cross bred with the shorthair blood. These ancestors included the Stichelhaar, Pudelpointer, Griffon, and the Deutsch-Kurzhaar .
The Deutsch-Drahthaar is a mid-sized, substantial dog. The height at shoulder varies from around 61 to 68 cm for males, and 57 to 64 cm for females. The coat is generally wiry, and tightly fit with a thick under wool. This coat was developed to provide optimal protection form external influences such as moisture, cold and heat, as well as thorns, brush and insects. The extended “eyebrows” and the typical beard give the DD his characteristic appearance. The breed has a variety of colorations. They are: brown and white or black and white ticked usually with some solid patches, and solid brown with or without a white chest patch.
A group of breeders founded the Verein Deutsch-Drahthaar (VDD) in May 1902. The driving force behind the Deutsch-Drahthaar, Freiherr Sigismund of Zedlitz and Neukirch, demanded that the primary breeding goal of the hunting dog be versatile performance ability. His thoughts became the principle of the VDD breeding program: “through performance to standard”. This principle is still upheld today, with registered breeders following a tradition of required performance and physical evaluation for all of the dogs used in the breeding program.
Many breeders of the German Wirehaired Pointer (GWP) errantly refer to their breed as Drahthaar. In addition to significant differences in breed standard, the Wirehair has been bred without regulation or restriction since the late 1950’s, but especially without the performance testing that proves the ability of the Drahthaar. After years of unrestricted breeding and no versatile performance standards the German Wirehaired Pointer has evolved into a distinctly separate breed.
Today’s DD is the dog most frequently used by the German hunting establishment, and is rapidly gaining popularity elsewhere, and that is not without reason. The Deutsch-Drahthaar is a passionate, hard-working dog. They are noted for their endurance and willingness to obey, as well as the ability to concentrate on the work at hand. After persistently searching the field with a sensitive nose, the DD shows the game by pointing, so that the hunter comes to a calm shot. Shot birds are hunted down and retrieved to the master. In particular, DD’s exhibit the characteristic of a retriever of lost game. They do this by their inbred capacity to track and pursue (and even dispatch) wounded game persistently and uncompromisingly in some of the most difficult conditions. This saves the game from unnecessary suffering. Their endurance, swimming ability and heavy coat also make them well suited to waterfowl hunting in the most adverse conditions. They are also used and trained to blood track wounded game including deer, fox and rabbits.
While the Deutsch-Drahthaar is a superb hunting companion, they are also well suited as a family dog. DD’s are normally gentle and friendly with children and other dogs, and are known to become protective of their “family” and home. Their intelligence and calm manner help them in adjusting to various living conditions. VDD Breeding Regulations specify that DD’s who show unwarranted aggressiveness toward people or other dogs are to be removed from the breeding program, so these traits do not get passed on.
As with all genuine hunting/working dogs, the DD needs legitimate specialty training and consistent guidance. Only when given sufficient training and activity does he seem content.
JW
08-03-2015, 05:57 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,664
I'm with JW either a German Drahthaar or German Shorthair. Pretty much the same dog, different fur. The Shorthair is a little easier to clean up after a hunt. Pointing is in their genes, it doesn't usually take much training to get them to point. A while back I was exercising my daughters Shorthair, he stopped and pointed at a bush in a city park. I thought there was a Rabbit in there, when I gave him the OK he dove in and came out with a Cock Pheasant in his mouth and brought it to me. This is basically a family dog and never had any training that I know of.
Like Oldtimr said, most hunters discourage their dogs from chasing Deer. And sometimes it can be one of the harder lessons for the dog to learn. They have many thousands of years of heredity that tells them to flush and chase Deer.
Dogging Deer is a good way to get a dog seriously hurt. They can get so fixated they run right through a barbed wire fence. Or chase the Deer across a highway or just run them until either the dog or the Deer drops. They can run a long long ways. I had an Ibizan Hound that had a major Heart attack chasing Hare. A good German Drahthaar or Shorthair can cost a substantial amount as a puppy. You add in all the time for training and you have a substantial investment in that dog.
Teaching a dog to point and flush without the chase IMO could be tricky.
Best guess is mankind and dogs have been hunting together for around 120,000 generations. Not all people are dog people, but the hereditary tendency to be a team almost has to be at the gene level for many humans and most dogs. There is even evidence that Neanderthal man kept Dogs.
Something to consider is what kind of coat the Dog has, a single coat works better in hot climates. A single coat and thick skin may be OK, a single coat, thin skin and jumping into a thicket can cause a lot of damage.
Best Deer Dog I ever had was a Shepard Boxer mix. She had a strong herding instinct, she would turn them and run them back to me. She had short hair for the hot south. And had outstanding stamina. That Dog could run forever. Just a magic mix of genes, it happens sometimes. She was almost pure speed dog, but could last a lot longer than most speed hounds do. She was almost equally sight, nose dominant.
Like Oldtimr said, most hunters discourage their dogs from chasing Deer. And sometimes it can be one of the harder lessons for the dog to learn. They have many thousands of years of heredity that tells them to flush and chase Deer.
Dogging Deer is a good way to get a dog seriously hurt. They can get so fixated they run right through a barbed wire fence. Or chase the Deer across a highway or just run them until either the dog or the Deer drops. They can run a long long ways. I had an Ibizan Hound that had a major Heart attack chasing Hare. A good German Drahthaar or Shorthair can cost a substantial amount as a puppy. You add in all the time for training and you have a substantial investment in that dog.
Teaching a dog to point and flush without the chase IMO could be tricky.
Best guess is mankind and dogs have been hunting together for around 120,000 generations. Not all people are dog people, but the hereditary tendency to be a team almost has to be at the gene level for many humans and most dogs. There is even evidence that Neanderthal man kept Dogs.
Something to consider is what kind of coat the Dog has, a single coat works better in hot climates. A single coat and thick skin may be OK, a single coat, thin skin and jumping into a thicket can cause a lot of damage.
Best Deer Dog I ever had was a Shepard Boxer mix. She had a strong herding instinct, she would turn them and run them back to me. She had short hair for the hot south. And had outstanding stamina. That Dog could run forever. Just a magic mix of genes, it happens sometimes. She was almost pure speed dog, but could last a lot longer than most speed hounds do. She was almost equally sight, nose dominant.
Last edited by MudderChuck; 08-03-2015 at 07:30 AM.
08-03-2015, 07:38 AM
#6
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7,437
Also note most blood tracking is done via a leash and not conducted off leash. That does make a difference. While upland hunting I do not ever allow chasing or running of deer. Ever! That is what the e-collar is for. That will stop that. I do allow the occasional rabbit as both of my GWPs will bay if they come onto a rabbit track. But bunny hunting is something we do late season more so during snow. They seem to be more in-tune to what I want to do or what we are after. I hunt Grouse, Woodcock, Pheasant, Prairie Chicken, Sharptail, Quail, Ducks, Geese, have used the dogs to track wounded wild Turkeys lost in a cedar swamp, occasional blood track of whitetail deer, and rabbits.
JW
JW
08-03-2015, 09:20 AM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
JW---Thanks for posting that up. I just lost my prized DD, Herc, a year ago last month to a fast, deadly stomach/gut problem the Vets couldn't do anything for and he went from a normal, healthy rascal to dead in less than 48 hours. Rest in peace Herc, as there will never be another like you!
Last edited by Topgun 3006; 08-03-2015 at 09:26 AM.
08-03-2015, 06:47 PM
#8
Fork Horn
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Up on the Milk River
Posts: 459
Having owned, and currently owning GWP's, they are awesome, you will not find many more hunting dogs with thiere prey drive. I also have a Large Munsterlander, they are not as popular as othr breeds, but they are one heck of a secret! They are great retrievers and they point very well, there tracking is awesome and they also love water, my GWP's like it, but not like the LM, though I know some do. One thing to remember, they both need lots of work in the field, so if your hunting is limited to deer, might not be fair to the dog....
