This is the least of my problems right now but thought id ask. i have an EP and i know they are a long ranging dog. but was wondering if there is any ways to cut that down some.
what i was doing once he got out to as far as i want him, i would yell his name and call him back.
now i have been using the whistle and it works just as well. the problem is he gets out to that point fast so i am non stop blowing the whistle. now he is around 14 months so dont know if thats an age thing or the breed or both. also i run him in the fields and i dont mind him ranging a little more out there but when in the grouse woods i want him close. any thoughts or tips???
When I first got my dog at 11 months old (he's 4 now) his name was "Pete". I only had him a few weeks when I met three different people that also has Springers. They asked me if he was a bird dog and I said "not yet".
Every one of them then asked 'What's his range"...I said "oh, about 75-100 yds"...that said that's waaaay too far, he's definitely a ranger. They all asked his name and I said "Pete" and at different times, they alllooked at the dog and asked him..."Are you a ranger Pete"?
Well that short story describes how he got his name...Ranger Pete...Just Ranger to most folks and Ranger Pete to some. He had never had any field training but went through three levels of Obedience Training. Every time I would take him in the woods, he would go at his merry pace and stay as far out as he wanted. Every time he went out of range, I called him in...Of course at the beginning that was almost constantly. But, it did not take long for him to realize that he had to stay close, within shooting range. He now stayswithin range (well, most of the time) and will even turn back to see where I am almost asking if he's too far out.
As mentioned in a previous post, I had the help of MA Jay who gave me the best piece of advice. When the dog is being trained on aything, he must IMMEDIATELY be reminded whenever he does something wrong. (I failed to do that once and was abruptly reminded). If he's told to stay and he moves...put him back and give him the command again. Of course rewards and praise are to be given when they do things correctly.
I wish I could give more accurate advice on your situation but hopefully others here can. I do know most dogs aren't stupid and at times they will try to get away with as much as they can. It's up to us to make them understand what we want them to do. Repetition, praise, keeping the training periods short, reprimanding the dog immediately when he/she requires it and ending training on a positive note all seem to work well.
Good luck....
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75-100 yds is not ranging at all
people that think they need a dog to be within 30 yds of them can't handle a dog
let the dog hunt so you don't have to
Dale, while I agree with you that typically an EP, or English Pointer for those reading this that are not aware of the breed, ranges of75 to 100 are not at all that far. But PA Gobbler did mention that his dog wasbeing used in the grouse woods wherea 100 yard point could take you quite a bit of time to get to the dog. Make that 150 or 200 yardsand you may not see that dog at all for very long periods of time which would be poor control.
PA Gobbler, I hunt grouse in NH which is pretty similar to PA which I also hunt every few years and I am with you, I like a pointing dog that stays in a nice 50 to 75 yard arc in front of me in the thick stufff and to check in closerin the really thick stuff. Using the whistle like you are is a good thing with a young dog as you are establishing the working "zone" for your dog and enforcing it. I have always found that with young dogs you are "checking" them a lot until theylearn that zone or range based on thedifferent conditions. As they get older, you find you are checking far less as they know the drill and if you are really lucky you getto hunt them until they start to collapse that zone as they slow down and get older. The fact he listens and respects your imposed boundry is a real good sign. I don't know any better way to enforce "range" other than time in the field under different conditions.
MA Jay- yeah 75-100yds i could deal w/. im talking in an open field if i dont call him back, he will range in the 400yrd mark(no joke). in a field i try to keep him 100-150. in the woods yeah i want it to be pretty tight. but he just goes, and its every couple of secs, im calling him back. okay i will keep doing what im doing and like you said after a little time under his belt he might start getting the piont. but he is hard headed(lol)
The biggest thing to me for you would be if the dog is hunting for you or are you hunting for the dog?
All dogs I have seen will develop their own comfortable range from you IF they hunt for you. If they hunt for themselves and could care less about you....well then....more training is needed to build that bond.
In other words - the thinner the cover ( the more the dog can visually see you) the farther they will range. And I don't care how far they want to range as long as they have manners on birds and wait for my ole butt to get there!
JW
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One suggestion: let the dog run early. At the beginning of every hunt, let him run some of the energy out about 15 min - 1/2 hour then call him in. Thenif you hunt with friends, spread out some. When you normally form a line with 30 yards between you, make it 50 yards. What happens is the dog willwant to cover the entireline by quartering, and the further out the line is, the closer it willrange to cover the line. When we'd hunt, we would usually have 4 or more people with us, spread out 50 yards between us. The pointer we ran would have to quarter 150 yards each direction in order to cover the entire line. If there were only twoof us, the distance was much shorter andthe dog ranged farther (which we didn't mind because we also ran an english setter who ranged closer).
The dog shouldhunt closer to you in thicker woods. Let it know that you are carrying the gun and that the only way it's going to getthe bird is because of the bang. Basically, its what JW is saying.The dog is being independant but eventually will start getting the hang of things.
It's fun isn't it? LOL. You just may have an all-age dog on your hands. That isn't a bad thing, all-age dogs don't come in every litter. I meanmany manybreeding programs are focused into getting one all-age dog. Good luck.
IMO, there's nothing wrong with controlling a dog's range (but I'm a Lab guy, so I'm a "control freak"). Early on in training and hunting, you may be whistling a lot, but as the dog gets some experience on wild birdsunder it's belt, it will (most all of the time) learn to control it's own range depending on circumstances. When I hunt quail, or early season pheasants,I let Casey range as far as he wants. Later in the year when the pheasants are extremely wise and spooky, I'll keep him closer. Our grouse woods here are extremely thick, and I like him to stay pretty darned close (40 - 50 yards) in situations like that. Just train the dog to perform and range depending on the circumstances.
.
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Doc E &
HR UH MHR WR SR Black Forest Casey &
HRCH HR UH Sauk River Friar Tucker (titled at 12.5 months)
I agree with what Mite said, let the dog run before the hunt and
get some of that stored energy out. It works wonders for me. I
also like to do what Doc said and let him range out in the open
and bring him in close in the heavey cover. I find this works much
better by letting them run first.
PA, Here is one for your hat that most all panic on, range does not matter if you do your bird work, between you and the dog correctly.....a dog is gonna run that same path, prolly 90% of the time, you watch the dog while he is running, you will learn if he is right or left handed, which way he will cut the timber, and usually with in feet of where he is gonna pop up at, its learning the dog, and before long you and him are the team, you learn what he is thinking, and he will be the same with you, will not happen in a session, or even a season, but before you realize it, you will both be in sync of each other. Just relax, and enjoy the dog...and dog work. Jonesy
Ranging
