Retriever training.

[drgildy]

I have always trained my own retrievers but have run into a problem that I haven't yet figured out. Any help will be appreciated. She is 14 months old and loves to retrieve dummies and anything I ask her to until a couple weeks ago. She then started going after the birds like always and then pouncing on the bird and digging at them so vigorously that she tears them apart with her claws. She does this with fresh killed birds, dead birds or frozen ones and does not pick them up. She is still very enthusiastic about dummies or going out to the birds. She has not been worked on anything except dummies, pigeons and ducks.

[Doc E]

Is she FF (Force Fetched)?

[Doc E]

.

[drgildy]

DocE, no she is not force fetched. She is a soft Chessie and I have been reluctant to put too much pressure on her. If I must do it I guess I will but I was hoping I could get by without that. Is it a must in your opinion?

[drfatguy]

I would f/f just because it makes delivery to hand so much easier especially when a water retieve is involved. This would also give you a handle to get her to pick the bird up. How have you disciplined her when she is acting like this? What happened just before she started doing this.
How badly does she sulk when you discipline her? Could this activity be a result of something she didn't like and is she retaliating?

Dr Fatguy

[Doc E]

FF allows a dog to work well "under pressure". That's what FF is all about (MUCH more than just a nice delivery).

[drfatguy]

DocE,
We look at FF differently. I FF to get a proper delivery. This is the reason. The benefit is I get a dog which can handle pressure better. By the time I force break a pup, the dog realizes he has to sit until I say OK (my release command), he has to come when called, and he has to kennel when told to. These basic commands are ingrained so the dog looses the ability to say no. This makes FF'ing much easier. I'll bet you do the same. These can come with pressure. When I put a dog on a board and say sit, pull on the check cord until he moves, and then chastize the dog (with electricity or voice) until he is back on the board, this pressure prepares him for FF'ing. The dog learns he has to do it or there are consequences. The same is true with FF'ing. The dog learns to pick up and deliver to hand on command. The pressure tells the dog what the consequences (I'll pinch your ear until you do it). I think we are saying the same thing from a differing perspective. If I remember correctly your labs point (why, I just don't understand, but I don't have to), whoa training would be similar to the sit training I do. When I train a dog to whoa, I put him on the tail-gate of my pickup, every(!!!!!!!!!!) time he moves a foot I swat it. Expectations and consequences teach the dog what is expected. If the dog has experienced consequences throughout the training program, FF'ing is easier. I will admit after the FF'ing is complete, the dog behaves much better.

Dr Fatguy

[MNfowlplay]

drfatguy,
is it just personal prefrance that you Ear Pinch instead of toepinch?

[drfatguy]

Mnfowlplay,
I ear pinch because I learned to do it that way. It's a habit. I FF a dog every 3-4 years so I can't justify some concrete monstrocity in my wife's back yard (that's right she owns the back yard). I use my PU's tailgate ora picnic table. I don't have the timing to toe hitch, if I get a refusal in the field the ear pinch is more convinent than the toe hitch. I learned to FF from an old bird dog field trialer. He ear pinched so I do now. My son helped FF a Jagdterrier he and I were training so he Ear Pinches now.

Dr Fatguy

[MNfowlplay]

yeah same with me...i learned to toe pinch/hitch and thats how i do it. I guess its what you learned and what you feel comfortable with.

MNfowlplay