Bushmaster M17S .223--Good Varmint Gun?

[Leslie Nordman]

Below is high praise for a nearly unknown weapon, the Bushmaster M17S, yet the praise comes from a highly-respected source, the " Small Arms Review." Anyone have experience with the Bushmaster M17S?

Thanks,

Leslie Nordman

From the " Small Arms Review"
April 1999

Bushmaster' s M17S
Ideal Compact Carbine?
by Charles Q. Cutshaw

Full Article

" The Bushmaster M17S is not well-known and generally is not even considered by either civilian or law enforcement purchasers, primarily because Bushmaster has not given the little rifle wide publicity. When questioned by the author, Bushmaster"™s spokesman stated that orders for their AR-15 - type rifles and carbines had been so heavy that the firm hadn"™t been able to publicize the M17S as widely as they would have liked, despite the fact that the M17S may well be better suited for those situations demanding a compact 5.56mm NATO carbine than any version of the AR-15. This is a strong statement, but the author has over 30 years"™ experience with AR-15 and M16 type weapons, plus other Stoner weapons and the fact is that Eugene Stoner designed several other rifles that were fundamentally superior to his AR-15 in their basic design. The M17S is derived from one of these superior designs, the AR-18.

" The M-17S functioned absolutely flawlessly over hundreds of rounds and was highly praised by all who had the opportunity to fire it.

" The M-17S is not without its faults, however. First, it cannot be fired by left-handed shooters due to placement of the ejection port, a problem inherent with most bullpup designs. Second, an after-market sight of some sort is virtually mandatory . . .

" In sum, we find a lot to like about the M17S, along with a few shortcomings. The little rifle is probably the best balanced and handling rifle we have fired in many years.

" In sum, Bushmaster"™s M17S is a highly reliable and compact rifle best suited for carry or storage in vehicles or in locations where space is at a premium. It is a short range - i.e. 25-300 yard - rifle, the distances at which most land combat occurs. The rifle is ideal for its intended purposes, which are self protection and informal shooting. Because of its size, it makes an nearly perfect vehicle or camp rifle. For the same reasons, the M17S is ideally suited as a law enforcement carbine . . . "

(or varmint rifle???)

[Howler]

I' ve not any experience with this rifle, But, am guessing that accuracy will be sub-par to any good bolt action gun on the market. I personally don' t like any auto loader rifles for hunting, do to less reliable and generally less accurate compared to the bolt actions. I suppose for a hunter that doesn' t expect to take any shots past 200 yrds., it might work well. How much do they sell for? And, obviously will need to put a good optic inhancer on top too.

[Leslie Nordman]

Dear Howler:

You made some excellent points. All I can do is quote SAR' s experience and Bushmaster' s Web page.

Price

You wrote: " How much do they sell for?"

From Bushmaster' s Web page: " Suggested Retail Price: $765.00"

Accuracy

You wrote: " am guessing that accuracy will be sub-par to any good bolt action gun on the market . . . "

SAR wrote: " . . . we were able to engage targets from CQB distance out to 200 meters without difficulty . . .

" . . . we considered the accuracy of the M17S to be excellent. We suspect that with appropriate sights the little rifle could probably group in the 1.5 inch range . . . "

Is a 1.5 inch spread at 100 yards good enough?

SAR: " It is a short range - i.e. 25-300 yard - rifle . . . " So, it sounds like the M17S would accurately engage varmints at those ranges.

Optical Sights

You wrote: " And, obviously will need to put a good optic inhancer on top too."

Ditto SAR: " an after-market sight of some sort is virtually mandatory, which adds to the expense of the rifle. Sights on the M-17S can charitably be described as rudimentary, although the " tunnel" through which the shooter must look in order to use them forms something of a very large " ghost ring" that might be used for very close engagements. Nonetheless, we feel that an after-market sight is virtually mandatory.

" The M-17S has a military standard " Picatinny rail" and thus will accept all Weaver-type mounts. We used an Aimpoint Comp ML with GG&G"™s excellent mount that not only positions the sight lower than the factory original, but has space for a spare battery as well. With the Comp ML installed, we were able to engage targets from CQB distance out to 200 meters without difficulty.

" A sight such as the Aimpoint, EO Technology"™s Holographic sight, or Trijicon"™s ACOG is of great benefit because sight alignment is eliminated and there is no parallax, enabling the shooter to simply place the red dot or cross hair on the target and shoot. This type of sight also greatly enhances the speed of target acquisition.

If the rifle is properly zeroed, the bullet will strike nearly at point of aim at typical carbine engagement ranges of 25 to 100 meters, with " Kentucky windage" enabling quick and easy 200 to 300 meter engagements. Optical sights such as those mentioned are also of great benefit to individuals whose eyes, like those of the author, make the use of iron sights difficult due to their inability to focus on close objects.

" We tested the M17S using the Aimpoint Comp ML at 100 yards and were able to achieve 2.5 inch groups from a rest using Black Hills and Remington 62 grain match ammunition. We also tested the rifle using Longbow 40 grain frangible and Cor-Bon 52 grain ball ammunition and achieved groups that ran in the three to 3.5 inch range. Considering that the Aimpoint dot virtually covered the standard bullseye at 100 yards, we considered the accuracy of the M17S to be excellent. We suspect that with appropriate sights the little rifle could probably group in the 1.5 inch range, but we did not have time to test this aspect of the rifle."

Of course, Howler, this is second-hand information.

Leslie Nordman

[Howler]

Well, you sound like you' ve answered your own questions about this rifle. I' d ask, are you looking for a rifle to plink varmints, woodchucks, prairie dogs, ect., or for predators such as coyote, fox, bob kitty, etc. I' d say for the price, a much better rifle for any of the above hunting could be found. As far as accuracy, There is a point where, the rifle can be better than the shooters ability. So, I guess, as far as being accurate enough for you, only you can answer that question. If you do happen to buy one, than you can give us your take on it after you use it some.

[Mainehunter]

Hey guys-I have owned a Bushmaster M-17S Bullpup and have to tell you that it is one of the most comfortable rifles I have ever fired. This rifle, being designed as a compact tactical close quarters weapon is ideal for that purpose.

The rifle is constructed with a match grade brl and accuracy and performance are as you would expect from Bushmaster top notch.

In all fairness and honesty I did sell that rifle but the reason had more to do with the .223/5.56 round than the M-17S. I was in the market for something bigger. If the M-17S was chambered in .308/7.62 NATO it would still be part of my collection.

I also want to chime in on Bushmaster' s Customer Service. My dealings with them have been limited but their efficiency and willingness to, as their title states, serve the customer is extremely high quality. For that reason alone I often recommend Bushmaster regardless of the product in question.

As far as usefulness on predators or varmints I am the wrong person to comment as my hunting is strictly whitetail size game on up. I understand that the .223 is held in high regard for use on those small critters though and of course the M-17S easily accepts optics so it' s versatility is a big plus.

For those who dislike optics and prefer the old iron sites (like myself) the bullpup does have what they refer to as 25 meter sites which are just fixed below the optic rail and are usable even with a scope.

I hope this helps.

[Mainehunter]

Oh, and as far as a price tag you should find them ranging from $650 to $950 depending on your source and whether you' re trading and paying the balance as compared to s straight cash sale.
Also when I acquired mine it had to be special ordered as no local shop had one and Bushmaster at the time was out of stock and making new ones. They were also filling a government contract for these rifles which delayed public sales. That was a few years ago so their availability has most likely improved since.