Smokeless Powder Muzzleloader
04-04-2007, 08:30 AM
#11
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 4,553
RE: Smokeless Powder Muzzleloader
I have had my savage 10ML-II for the past couple of years and it is fantastic. It is very accurate and you can work up a load topush as 250 grn bullet2,600-2,900 fps and achieve moa out to 300 yards. Some states do have the use of smokeless during ML season as illegal. Minnesota made it illegal last year, but current legislation going through to make it legal again, as some how the change was snuck through without anyone knowing/stating who or how it got changed.
The following is a great site on the savage 10ML-II and smokeless ML in general, as there are others.
http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?
The following is a great site on the savage 10ML-II and smokeless ML in general, as there are others.
http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?
04-04-2007, 08:35 AM
#12
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rantoul IL USA
Posts: 193
RE: Smokeless Powder Muzzleloader
Cons? 1) To some the need of a powder scale, unless you use 5744 and then you can scoop, BUT I use a scale for my smokers and weigh out every load... so not really a con for me. 2) The vent liners can be a con... they wear, you can get hardened vents or get the plug modified to decrease wear on the vent. 3) The stigma of hunting with a smokeless ML... not a con for me because I could care less about that. 4) The Savage is a heavy ML... 10-11 lbs with scope. Not a problem for those who stand hunt. 5) Plastic stock is flimsy... laminate stock is at least a pound heavier.
Pros? 1) I can see what I shoot immediately... this year I actually saw the hair fly when I shot a buck with the 10ML2 and most important I saw where he dropped when he ran directly away from me where smoke would have obscured it. 2) I have a Max Point Blank Range of 200 yds for a 6 inch Kill Zone. I just point and shoot at anything 200 or under and do not have to worry about compensating. 3) Can be cheaper to shoot then the avg ML. I use 65gn of IMR4198, Harvester black sabot, and 300gn XTP. Cheap to shoot and effective on game. 4) Clean up is a snap. Toughest part is the plug... should drill out the carbon build up on a regular basis. 5) Can go to a blued barrel with greater confidence. You are not using the more corrosive black powder and BP subs. 6) The Accutrigger on the Savage is one of the better if not the best trigger you will find on a stock ML. 7) The action seals out blowback and the bolt holds and extracts the 209 primer better than most any ML on the market. 8) Rifle grade steal is used for the barrel. This is a safe ML. 9) One of the most accurate ML's I have ever owned and that is a stock (no mods) 10ML2 with the tupperware stock... MOA at 100 yds consistently.
I could probably think of more to say but that covers it for now...
Pros? 1) I can see what I shoot immediately... this year I actually saw the hair fly when I shot a buck with the 10ML2 and most important I saw where he dropped when he ran directly away from me where smoke would have obscured it. 2) I have a Max Point Blank Range of 200 yds for a 6 inch Kill Zone. I just point and shoot at anything 200 or under and do not have to worry about compensating. 3) Can be cheaper to shoot then the avg ML. I use 65gn of IMR4198, Harvester black sabot, and 300gn XTP. Cheap to shoot and effective on game. 4) Clean up is a snap. Toughest part is the plug... should drill out the carbon build up on a regular basis. 5) Can go to a blued barrel with greater confidence. You are not using the more corrosive black powder and BP subs. 6) The Accutrigger on the Savage is one of the better if not the best trigger you will find on a stock ML. 7) The action seals out blowback and the bolt holds and extracts the 209 primer better than most any ML on the market. 8) Rifle grade steal is used for the barrel. This is a safe ML. 9) One of the most accurate ML's I have ever owned and that is a stock (no mods) 10ML2 with the tupperware stock... MOA at 100 yds consistently.
I could probably think of more to say but that covers it for now...
04-04-2007, 08:44 AM
#13
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 4,553
RE: Smokeless Powder Muzzleloader
ORIGINAL: Flatland Hunter
Cons? 1) To some the need of a powder scale, unless you use 5744 and then you can scoop, BUT I use a scale for my smokers and weigh out every load... so not really a con for me. 2) The vent liners can be a con... they wear, you can get hardened vents or get the plug modified to decrease wear on the vent. 3) The stigma of hunting with a smokeless ML... not a con for me because I could care less about that. 4) The Savage is a heavy ML... 10-11 lbs with scope. Not a problem for those who stand hunt. 5) Plastic stock is flimsy... laminate stock is at least a pound heavier.
Pros? 1) I can see what I shoot immediately... this year I actually saw the hair fly when I shot a buck with the 10ML2 and most important I saw where he dropped when he ran directly away from me where smoke would have obscured it. 2) I have a Max Point Blank Range of 200 yds for a 6 inch Kill Zone. I just point and shoot at anything 200 or under and do not have to worry about compensating. 3) Can be cheaper to shoot then the avg ML. I use 60gn of IMR4198, Harvester black sabot, and 300gn XTP. Cheap to shoot and effective on game. 4) Clean up is a snap. Toughest part is the plug... should drill out the carbon build up on a regular basis. 5) Can go to a blued barrel with greater confidence. You are not using the more corrosive black powder and BP subs. 6) The Accutrigger on the Savage is one of the better if not the best trigger you will find on a stock ML. 7) The action seals out blowback and the bolt holds and extracts the 209 primer better than most any ML on the market. 8) Rifle grade steal is used for the barrel. This is a safe ML. 9) One of the most accurate ML's I have ever owned and that is a stock (no mods) 10ML2 with the tupperware stock... MOA at 100 yds consistently.
I could probably think of more to say but that covers it for now...
Cons? 1) To some the need of a powder scale, unless you use 5744 and then you can scoop, BUT I use a scale for my smokers and weigh out every load... so not really a con for me. 2) The vent liners can be a con... they wear, you can get hardened vents or get the plug modified to decrease wear on the vent. 3) The stigma of hunting with a smokeless ML... not a con for me because I could care less about that. 4) The Savage is a heavy ML... 10-11 lbs with scope. Not a problem for those who stand hunt. 5) Plastic stock is flimsy... laminate stock is at least a pound heavier.
Pros? 1) I can see what I shoot immediately... this year I actually saw the hair fly when I shot a buck with the 10ML2 and most important I saw where he dropped when he ran directly away from me where smoke would have obscured it. 2) I have a Max Point Blank Range of 200 yds for a 6 inch Kill Zone. I just point and shoot at anything 200 or under and do not have to worry about compensating. 3) Can be cheaper to shoot then the avg ML. I use 60gn of IMR4198, Harvester black sabot, and 300gn XTP. Cheap to shoot and effective on game. 4) Clean up is a snap. Toughest part is the plug... should drill out the carbon build up on a regular basis. 5) Can go to a blued barrel with greater confidence. You are not using the more corrosive black powder and BP subs. 6) The Accutrigger on the Savage is one of the better if not the best trigger you will find on a stock ML. 7) The action seals out blowback and the bolt holds and extracts the 209 primer better than most any ML on the market. 8) Rifle grade steal is used for the barrel. This is a safe ML. 9) One of the most accurate ML's I have ever owned and that is a stock (no mods) 10ML2 with the tupperware stock... MOA at 100 yds consistently.
I could probably think of more to say but that covers it for now...
04-04-2007, 10:45 AM
#14
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 4,553
RE: Smokeless Powder Muzzleloader
Just got done checking on MN house bill HF 1116 and as of 4/2/07 it is again legal to use smokeless powder during ML season in MN. Take that you sneaky traditional MLer's trying to scam good folk! 
04-04-2007, 10:46 AM
#15
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 5,180
RE: Smokeless Powder Muzzleloader
you can still shoot blackpowder/ subs in the savage so its a real high tech muzzleloader that lets you shoot everything from subs to smokeless. Would i use it if i could? No. why? I like the smoke and smell of a muzzleloader.
04-04-2007, 10:52 AM
#16
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 4,553
RE: Smokeless Powder Muzzleloader
ORIGINAL: frontier gander
you can still shoot blackpowder/ subs in the savage so its a real high tech muzzleloader that lets you shoot everything from subs to smokeless. Would i use it if i could? No. why? I like the smoke and smell of a muzzleloader.
you can still shoot blackpowder/ subs in the savage so its a real high tech muzzleloader that lets you shoot everything from subs to smokeless. Would i use it if i could? No. why? I like the smoke and smell of a muzzleloader.
04-04-2007, 12:05 PM
#17
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Greensboro NC USA
Posts: 563
RE: Smokeless Powder Muzzleloader
ORIGINAL: younggun243
A friend of mine has one of these, and I was wondering, are these any good over black powder? His is a Savage. I personaly was thinking of getting a black powder muzzleloader, but what are the cons of a smokeless powder muzzleloader?
In the meantime if someone asks me what kind of muzzleloader I would like to get I'll tell them, "T/C Encore .50 cal. Black Powder".
A friend of mine has one of these, and I was wondering, are these any good over black powder? His is a Savage. I personaly was thinking of getting a black powder muzzleloader, but what are the cons of a smokeless powder muzzleloader?
In the meantime if someone asks me what kind of muzzleloader I would like to get I'll tell them, "T/C Encore .50 cal. Black Powder".
When you compare the T/C Encore to the Savage, the Savage will do anything that the T/Cis capable of doingperformance wise, but the T/C is not able and willnever be a matchfor the Savage's performance capabilities.
As far as, smokeless vs real BP, it is no contest, smokeless is the winner hands down, performance wise. It is safer to ship and store, less violatile, produces better performance, less recoil, and produces that better performance at a fraction of the cost.
Forgot something important. In TN the use of smokeless powder in muzzleloader season is perfectly legal.
04-04-2007, 04:23 PM
#18
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 828
RE: Smokeless Powder Muzzleloader
I just got my Savage muzzleloader. I can see why people sing it's praises. There really isn't anything odd or mystical about it, other than it's way overbuilt to handle smokeless pressures. You get 150 grain triple 7 pellet load velocities with about half the recoil. That's a big deal for me. The trigger is adjustable-another plus. I don't mind the plastic stock on mine. It's a hunting gun and I won't cry if I put a scratch on it. My only real complaint of the gun is it's overall size. But then again, I'm small person and I don't think it'll bother the average size guy. I have both the Encore and a Savage and I say...get the Savage
04-04-2007, 05:16 PM
#19
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 973
RE: Smokeless Powder Muzzleloader
Younggun243 - your profile says alot about your question. You are a life member in the forums and presumably you like a .243. I notice you've spent time on the gun section and deer hunting. Flat and fast may be where you are and looking for a challenge. Smokeless may well be a great place to start. If it is legal in your state to hunt with and that's important to you, you could get one and try both smokeless and smokeful. Maybe after a few years you'd want another challenge and go to a slow twist roundball gun or a flintlock.
I'm pretty much at the other end of things. I've been living in a "cave" (with a sidelock, oh, and a beautiful wife), depending on woodsmanship and Lady Luck to make it happen; and she has. I've been looking for a different challenge. In my case, seeing just how much performance can be achieved with sidelocks. So far, a fast twist barrel and fiber optic sights have been added, and, so far, I'm impressed and feeling only a little bit guilty.
Maybe one day you and I meet, having found our way to the weapon which most reflects the journey taken. I won't be surprised, if after all the searching and shooting and target punching we hold similar weapons. One with a sliver of stone in its jaws.
Good luck with your quest!
I'm pretty much at the other end of things. I've been living in a "cave" (with a sidelock, oh, and a beautiful wife), depending on woodsmanship and Lady Luck to make it happen; and she has. I've been looking for a different challenge. In my case, seeing just how much performance can be achieved with sidelocks. So far, a fast twist barrel and fiber optic sights have been added, and, so far, I'm impressed and feeling only a little bit guilty.
Maybe one day you and I meet, having found our way to the weapon which most reflects the journey taken. I won't be surprised, if after all the searching and shooting and target punching we hold similar weapons. One with a sliver of stone in its jaws.
Good luck with your quest!