What velocities for cast bullets?

[charlie brown]

OK, I have decided on a bullet that I am going to load for my .30-06 (short range .30-06 load thread). It is going to be a Meister bullets .308 165 grain flat point. I think this should work good for short range work on mountain lions and larger varmints such as coyote and badger. Their listed BHN is 14-16 for that bullet. Also, I was considering using Unique powder, or if the bullet can handle the velocities, maybe W748 or AA2460 (which I have both on the shelf). How fast can I run this hard of a bullet without getting serious lead fowling in the barrel. I know every gun will act differently, but what have your experiences been with various loads? (Pistol and rifle, I know the larger pistols can get some bullets up there pretty fast.) Any help would be great. Thanks guys.

[Charley]

You are asking a question that is akin to "how high is the sky?". I have seen cast bullets fired at 2300 to 2400 FPS with good accuracy and NO leading-I've pushed them to 2000 FPS myself, with the same results. Cast bullet success or failure is directly related to:
1. Bullet DIAMETER, as related to the bore and throat dimensions.
2. Bullet LUBE, what type, how applied, and bullet design.
3. Bullet design (lube grooves, gas check, etc.)
4. Bullet hardness.

Bullet hardness is less important than the first three items.
If your bullets are indeed .308, they are most likely going to be unsuitable for much over 1000 to 1300 FPS, because they will be undersized for a nominal .308 bore. If Meister has bullets sized to .309, buy them instead!
308 cast bullets in a .308 bore are not going to set any accuracy records.
What lube does Meister use? Makes a great deal of difference. Get a bottle of Lee's liquid alox lube and lube over the existing lube, that can help. Are these gas checked? Gas checks are needed for much over 1200 FPS, IME.
Good luck to you, but remember: Cast bullets are usually .001 to .002 OVER bore diameter. Undersized cast bullets won't shoot well at all!

[charlie brown]

Charley-- Thank you for the info.

1) Bullet Meister does have a .309 bullet, will consider that, thank you.
2) No, the bullets DO NOT have a gas check, so will have to limit velocities initially and try to recover some bullets to see how they do.
3) The lubricant they use is Rooster Lubricant, do you know what quality this lube is?

Again thank you for the reply

[Charley]

Sorry not to have answered earlier. Rooster has several formulas, most are good. Do the bullets have a provision for a gas check? If so, you will need to install some. If you will email me with a snail mail adress, I will send you some samples of my favorite 30 caliber cast bullet.
My favorite cast bullet powder is SR4759, at about 17 to 18 grains. Not a hot load, but very accurate. Does about 1500 FPS. Here is a picture of a .30/06 M1917, with a three shot group at 50 yards.

[eldeguello]

Charlie has given you a lot of good information. For velocities much over 1300-1400 FPS, a gascheck is MANDATORY because temperatures at the pressures needed to exceed these speeds melts bullet bases, and accuracy goes out the window quick as leading builds up.

Some very good lubricants are the NRA Alox formula, as exemplified by such products as Javelina. Another extremely good one is LBT Blue from Veral Smith's Lead Bullets Technologies company. It is especially suited to rifles firing cast bullets at over 2200-2300 FPS. Smith has devised ways of getting cast bullets to over 2700 FPS MV with accuracy!

I have found that when looking for real accuracy at elevated velocities with cast bullets, slow powders are the answer. They accelerate the bullets more "gently", causing less deformation in the launching process. I mean H4831, IMR 4350, etc., down to perhaps as fast as IMR 3031 and RE 7. The more pristine the bullet is when it becomes airborne, the more accurate it will be. In addition, large charges of slow powders don't wander around in the case like fast powders do! Thus ignition is much more uniform without having to point the gun vertical before each shot to seat the powder in the back of the case!

I recommend Veral Smith's cast bullet handbook entitled Jacketed Velocities with Cast Bullets, (or some similar title), for anyone who really wants to know about cast bullet shooting from high velocity rifles!



This is a 5-shot group fired @ 100 yards from a Ruger No. 3 in .30/40 Krag. The bullet was a 173-grain Lyman 31141 hollowpoint gascheck sized .308 and lubed with Bullet Master MOS2 paint-on lube and 35 grains of IMR 3031. MV was 2200 FPS. No leading!

[charlie brown]

Thanks guys for the replies. Charley, that would be good. I will get you my addy. I don't need extremely fast velocities, as I plan for this to be a short range target load, mainly for fun, and to use for Mountain Lions. I want to use something that will do very little damage to the pelt and expell all of the energy inside the animal. I did order the bullets. I plan to load 30 grains of W 748 which should keep my velocites under 1500 fps. This is just a little slower than IMR 3031. I should be able to recover some bullets in some wet magazines and see if there are any gas cuts around the base. If it doesn't work, well then I gues I'm out a few dollars. I have access to a foul out kit, so its not a major problem if leading does occur.

[eldeguello]

I have access to a foul out kit, so its not a major problem if leading does occur.

I have discovered that firing two or three full-power jacketed loads through a leaded bore takes it ALL OUT without the painful scrubbing.....!!