223 load

[deerslayer223]

I was wondering if anyone in here knows a good consistent 223 load for woodchucks and maybe the occasional crack at a deer. I have used a 223 on deer before with great effects so i am not afraid to try! Thanks

Slayer

[driftrider]

Why would you hunt deer with a .223 when you have a .243 (according to another post on this forum)? A few people might disagree with me, but I think that hunting deer with a .223 (or ANY .22cal rifle for that matter) is completely irresponsible and unethical, perticularly when you have access to a much more suitable and effective caliber. Sure, a .223 can kill a deer, but not as reliably and effectively as a larger caliber rifle, and the .223 would leave you zero room for error in shot placement. The deer deserve better than that.

As to your other question, any bullet designed for varmints is completely unsuitable for any game bigger and heavier than a coyote. This is because varmint bullets are designed to produce instant and explosive expansion on contact with the target. This is great for small bodied animals, but deer are far too tough for the fragments to penetrate into vital organs. Most likely the result would be a horrific, but not quickly fatal, flesh wound. Sure, the deer might die days later from infection, but that isn't what we're after is it? There are a couple bullets out there in .224cal that are designed to stay together and penetrate, but just because they exist doesn't mean that they are appropriate for ethical and responsible big game hunting.

My suggestion would be to load the .223 with varmint bullets for shooting varmints, and keep the .243 in your truck in case you want to take the "occational crack at a deer." Because as far as I'm concerned, if you choose to shoot at deer with a grossly underpowered rifle for the task, then you are only a slight step above a poacher in my book because you give the anti's all the ammo they need to convince fence sitters that ALL hunters are unethical thugs.

Mike

[deerslayer223]

Well we all can think what we want. Alot of people agree that and 224 caliber is underpowered for deer. Well here's my view. I am a disabled hunter and i did not know how much recoil i could handle so i got a 223 i wanted to go bigger but the sports shop advised me that with proper shot placement it would kill deer. I only took broadside shots and only at standing deer. U know what??? I NEVER LOST A DEER!!!!!!!!!! i shot 8 deer with the 223 and i didn't have any run farther than 20 feet. I even shot a 215lb buck at 185 yards and he took 2 steps and was dead. So have w/e opinion u want. In the hands of the right shooter with the right ethic it works. And by the way Driftrider i dont poach and u think what u want about me being the step above. Sorry if i offened u but u offended me!!!![:@]

[Vapodog]

I have six .223s and my favorfite load is 27 1/2 grains of BL-C2 behind a 50 grain Speer TNT.

At least for varmints it's a fine load in all my guns.

I too have used it on deer and it sure works.....there's better choices but the .223 is capable of "big game" hunting.....I wish I had a good deer load to recommend but I don't.....I've heard a lot of good things about Nosler's 60 grain partician.

[Briman]

Use good bullets made for hunting.

The most powerful military on earth uses the .223 to hunt the most dangerous game on earth, some of the members of this species get up to trophy size around 300 lbs

It certainly aint the best caliber to use for deer hunting, but I won't fault anyone for using it if its all they can use.

[driftrider]

And by the way Driftrider i dont poach and u think what u want about me being the step above. Sorry if i offened u but u offended me!!!!

Never said you were a poacher...if you'd have bothered to read what I said closely you'd see that I said that anyone who'd intentionally use an underpowered weapon is "...only a slight step above a poacher."

If you are really disabled then that mitigates things a little bit, but in another post you said (or at least implied) that you also have and shoot a .243Win. So if you can handle a .243Win then there is no excuse for using a .223. .243's don't kick that hard, even with 100gr bullets. And there are several things that can be done to reduce recoil further (quality recoil pad, mercury recoil supressors, etc...) if it is still a little too much. But you already said that you can handle it, and are even asking in another thread about "over MAX" handload recipes for .243, so apparently you can handle it OK.

I am going to start loading for my 243. I was wondering if anyone knows a really good Hot load that is a little above max but still safe. I will start out light and work my way up to this. I was just wondering what a good load is!

I took this from your other post entitled " Does anyone know 243 load that is above max?" also on this forum. So tell me, how exactly can you handle a .243Win when you're not deerhunting, but can't when you are? And if you can barely handle a .223's recoil, why do you want to shoot max or over max loads through your .243? I'm sorry, but your story just doesn't jive, so I think it's somebody's responsibility to hoist the BS flag on this one. Just asking the above question indicates to me that you are probably not as responsible as you should be by asking about loads that exceed published maximums. Load maximums are published for a reason, and that is safety (yours and those around you). I certainly hope that if you do load above published max that you make sure you tell anybody else shooting next to you that you are, that way they can display more wisdom and prudence than you apparently have and get the heck away from you before you blow yourself up. I watched somebody who probably thought that they knew better than the ballisticians who work up the published handloads (like you apparently do) blow the ammo, follower and floorplate clean off of a Remington M700 .223 with hot handloads. I was shooting at the bench right next to this retard and watched the whole thing. Thank God the receiver held together. But he'd shot 10 or so times with these, and probably though they were safe, then boom! Magazine parts all over the bench and ground. I hope you reconsider so this isn't you, too.

As far as offending you, well if it did then it obviously got through to you on some level. Hopefully it'l make you think about what I've said. I'm not going to play patty-cake with you or sugar-coat a response about something I feel strongly about. I care about the future of this sport, and feel it's important to speak out on hunters behalf when it's necessary. I also feel that it is important to police our own (or would you rather have the government do it?), because the it's the small percentage of irresponsible and unethical hunters that paint the picture of ALL of us to the non-hunting public. It is that perception by "neutral" voters that determines whether we are allowed to continue to hunt or not. I am entitled to voice my opinion despite the fact that it might upset or offend you. That's the great thing about being an American, wouldn't you say? The purpose of the first amendment wasn't to only allow speech that leaves you with a worm fuzzy feeling inside...well, unless you subscribe to a liberal interpretation (read perversion) of the 1st Amd.

The most powerful military on earth uses the .223 to hunt the most dangerous game on earth, some of the members of this species get up to trophy size around 300 lbs

Ah, yes...but the military is interested in producing casualties, not quick, clean, and ethical kills. In fact, wounding the enemy is as good, and sometimes even better than killing him outright, depending on whether the enemy gives a crap about taking care of their wounded. The .223 works well at producing casualties, with the fatality rate probably due more to the fact that most of our enemies lack the ability to properly care for their wounded, so a wound that an American soldier would have likely survived is probably going to be eventually fatal to an enemy combatant. And most people would argue that the .223, especially with military FMJ ball ammo, isn't the greatest thing for shooting at people either. It was selected for military service based on a number of reasons, stopping power not really being one of them. So to sum up, it's perfectly acceptable to shoot an enemy with an M16-A2 and leave him to suffer a long, screaming, agonizing death on the battlefield, but it's not acceptable to do this do a deer. Apples and oranges.

Mike

[deerslayer223]

I got my 223 when i was 12 at the time i had never shot a gun above a 22 WE DID NOT KNOW how much recoil i could handle so for safety's sake we went with the 223. When i got a 243 my father wanted to be safe so he muzzle braked it so there is absolutely no recoil. I have since shot a 243 without a break and realize i can handle the kick. So driftrider at the time i did not know the recoil i could handle now i know that's why i stepped it up to the 243. I just wanted a load to shoot for fun and maybe somewhere down the road take a deer with. You may think i am a step above a poacher think what u want. In my opinion the person a step above a poacher is a person who takes bad shots or shoots at deer running very far away. they have no respect for the game they are hunting. A 223 in the hands of the right shooter will take a deer down and they dont suffer either. You can keep ur opinion. I'll keep mine. [:@]

Slayer.

[icthruu]

I'm going to have to agree with driftrider on this one. If you have both guns, why not use the .243 on deer? If you are varmit hunting and think you "may get a shot at a deer" then why not take the .243 loaded with varmit bullets, and carry a few "big game" bullets with you? Around these parts we consider a .243 to be about minimum for deer. I didn't even post a reply to your post on over-max loads for the .243. Anyone with a little knowledge of reloading would know how wrong that it is to even try that. I too have seen a gun blown up because of over-loads, and it impressed me enough to stay at or usually under the published maximum loads.

If you truly respect the deer then you have to do the best you can to make a clean humane kill, use an appropriate caliber, shoot well, and know the limits of both your gun and yourself. I had a friend that got a .22-250 for hunting Arkansas deer (which he told me are smaller than our michigan variety), and didn't like it.

Yes the military uses .223 to "hunt" humans. Which are actually thinner chested than deer, and usually present a slightly different target than a deer (I've never personally had a deer stand on hind legs and walk towards me). The anatomy just isn't the same. And as said before killing isn't really the goal, wounded take more personel and supplies to care for than KIA's, and thus put a bigger strain on the enemy than just leaving or even carrying out a dead body.

I'm sure that within it's limits a .223 can, has, and will kill deer. But there is better, and it's available to you so why not use it and show some respect for the game?

[thndrchiken]

I'm not one to jump on any bandwagons but I do know a couple of guys that use 22's for deer, one uses a 222 and the other uses a 22-250 and a 30-30. They both fill their tags every year. Now the other side of the coin, if you have a gun that is better suited for what you want to hunt that is what you should be using. For instance, my 223's would never see deer hunting, the 257 Roberts sees varmint and deer but probably would not be used for bear or elk because the 6.5x55, 307, 30-06 and 35 Whelen are much better suited for those tasks.

[bigbuck270]

I shoot a bushmaster v-match in .223. I found the best load to be 24.3 gr of Ramshot TAC, 50 gr. nosler ballistic tip with an oal of 2.255". I shot this weekend and was under 3/4 inch at 150 yards. Load the good bullets, they are well worth the extra money