Experienced reloaders...talk to me....

[Antler Eater]

I have reloaded shot shells for years, as well as hand gun loads from an old Lee Loader; very basic tools.

I picked up a RCBS RCII press and thought I would start loading some accurate loads for my rifles ranging from .204 up to a .308. My goodness what a surprise I got! So many options but so little cash.....

Take the .223 for example. I can buy the two die set for a reasonable amount of money, but then I see they offer a competition two die set for considerably more money. Is there that much difference in accuracy between the two to justify the cost?

Further they offer a small base die set for recommended for autos but not bolt actions.... Is this a necessity for something like an AR-15?

How about the carbide full length sizer that eliminates the need for case lubrication. Is this something that every reloader should have? How about a neck sizer die?

Then there is the issue of having a case trimmer... The RCBS model is not cheap. I assume this is a very necessary tool, yes?

Is the RCBS precision mic that measures the chamber headspace and bullet seating depth a necessity also?

I have a scale, butwhat other tools would you recommend to create accurate reloads?

Fill me in guys....

ORIGINAL: Antler Eater
Take the .223 for example. I can buy the two die set for a reasonable amount of money, but then I see they offer a competition two die set for considerably more money. Is there that much difference in accuracy between the two to justify the cost?

For the typical reloader, they are not worth it. I like redding competition dies. If your planning on 1000 yard shooting then consider it.

Further they offer a small base die set for recommended for autos but not bolt actions.... Is this a necessity for something like an AR-15?

Possibly, if your AR is geared to rapid fire and not accuracy, or if you rapid fire alot, then I would go small base. Personally, I go small base on my AR-15 loads. I need too on a 7400 270win for reliable feeding. Not every semi needs it.

How about the carbide full length sizer that eliminates the need for case lubrication. Is this something that every reloader should have? How about a neck sizer die?

They don't make too many carbide FL sizers for bottle neck cartridges. Only straight wall. I only know of one cartridge they make a carbide sizer for that is bottleneck, and that is a 357sig pistol. Most rifle cartridges are tapered body (excluding AI)so you couldn't use a carbide sizer anyway. I like neck sizers, especially Lee collet sizers. They are must. But you need a FL Sizer to go along with it, because you can only neck size so many times before FL Sizing again.

Then there is the issue of having a case trimmer... The RCBS model is not cheap. I assume this is a very necessary tool, yes?

Can't reload without it. The RCBS one is pretty cheap actually. Go to Sinclair intl and see some pricey ones. I use an RCBS and loathe the task, but its a must for safety and accuracy.

Is the RCBS precision mic that measures the chamber headspace and bullet seating depth a necessity also?

I don't like the precision mic, but do gauges from stoney point, (now hornady) to measure shoulders and headspace. This is highly debated, but love mine. Whenever someone tells me they are having trouble chambering, or accuracy, I usually find the culprit with my head and shoulders gauge, and my OAL gauges. There are other homemade methods also that work just as good.

I have a scale, butwhat other tools would you recommend to create accurate reloads?

Fill me in guys....

For accurate loads, you want straight ammo. For straight ammo, you need a concentricity gauge to sort your ammo. You need to know the dimensions of your chamber, and fill those as close as possibly, and to do that you need a head and shoulders gauge. For highly accurate loads, you need a starting place for bullet seating, and thats where a OAL gauge comes in.

These are things most of us pick up here and there over the years. Not all at once.Everybody wants to make match ammo right out of the starting gate, but it doesn't happen. Internet helps that learning curve tremendously, but only way to learn these is sitting behind the bench with experience. There is no shortcuts.

[Antler Eater]

Big Country, that was very helpful! Thank you for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it a bunch.
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[bronko22000]

Antler Eater - Follow Bigcounty's advice. Because of your question on the small base die I assume you do have an AR type rifle. I have one from Stag Arms and I also have a bolt action .223. I've reloaded my bolt action 223 for years but when I got my black rifle I had to get a small base resizing die for it. Now when I reload for either of them I keep the rounds segregated.

[Pawildman]

....You've already been given a lot of real good advice. If you haven't, go back to the top of the "Reloading" forum and click on the topic.."New to reloading? Read this first" It gives a very basic list of NEEDS you should certainly have before you get started. The list is basic only, and as you develop, you will want to add more equipment as time goes on. Some of the things that you probably will acquire later aren't absolute necessities now, but as big country said, can make your life a little easier down the road as you get deeper into the concept and ideaology. Get yourself a good compass, as you can get "lost" in this stuff real quick...........

[Briman]

Take the .223 for example. I can buy the two die set for a reasonable amount of money, but then I see they offer a competition two die set for considerably more money. Is there that much difference in accuracy between the two to justify the cost?

The competition dies often have micrometer adjustments and windows to feed into- not more accurate, just a bit easier to use.

Further they offer a small base die set for recommended for autos but not bolt actions.... Is this a necessity for something like an AR-15?

Yes and no. If you use once fired military brass (usually fired out of a machinegun with very loose chamber tolerances) then you absolutely need one. If you are using commercial brass, you won't have many problems. An AR-15 isn't prone to out of battery firing like a worn or out-of-spec M1 or M1a is. If you are just loading for the AR-15 in .223 I would get the small base sizing die- it will do no harm.

How about the carbide full length sizer that eliminates the need for case lubrication. Is this something that every reloader should have? How about a neck sizer die?

Yes, yes, and maybe. Carbide dies are the only way to go for straight walled cases. Necksizer- only if you are shooting a bolt action with an aftermarket barrel and tightly (and very squarely) cut chamber.

Then there is the issue of having a case trimmer... The RCBS model is not cheap. I assume this is a very necessary tool, yes?

Avoid the RCBS ( I really hate mine and it doesn't cut very square), its not the best for the price. Lyman is better, Forster is far better, a Lee cutter will even be better than the RCBS on standard cartridges for a tiny fraction of the cost and is much easier to use.

Is the RCBS precision mic that measures the chamber headspace and bullet seating depth a necessity also?

A cartridge headspace guage is an absolute necessity with an AR-15, M1, M1A. Without it, you are only fumbling around in the dark. RCBS is ok, I use (and prefer) a Stoney Point (now Hornady), and Wilson makes guages where you simply drop the case into the guage to see if it will chamber and if the cartridge headspace is within min and max specs.

I have a scale, butwhat other tools would you recommend to create accurate reloads?

A dial caliper. Just buy a chinese made version for around $20. All of the RCBS, Lyman, Hornady, Cabela's, etc calipers are made in china and simply carry different brand logos on them. You can buy a set from Harbor Freight for the lowest price. The next level of quality and precision in dial calipers starts at $100+. Avoid plastic calipers- they're junk.

Rubber O-rings: Buy a 1/2 dozen of them that fit around the ram in the slot that holds the shell holder in place. Remove the shellholder retention spring, throw it away, and use an O-ring to hold the shellholder in place. The brass will feed into your sizing and seating dies with less interference and you should get straighter ammo.

Imperial Sizing Die Wax- Skip all of the other case lubes and move on up the learning curve- this stuff is the best. Might not make any accuracy difference, but will make reloading much easier and less messy. It also lasts a long time and you'll never have to 'invest' in a stuck case remover *cough* Hornady one-shot*cough*

[fornra@yahoo.com]

Lee makes the best case trimmer peroid ,Regardless of price! Just go ahead and spend that $6.
As for dies, I like the Lee collet die, included with a set for about $25 total. I just dont see where the other guys give you any more for your money.
I have them but my Lee tools take a back seat to none of them when I get to the range.

ORIGINAL: fornra@yahoo.com

Lee makes the best case trimmer peroid ,Regardless of price! Just go ahead and spend that $6.
As for dies, I like the Lee collet die, included with a set for about $25 total. I just dont see where the other guys give you any more for your money.
I have them but my Lee tools take a back seat to none of them when I get to the range.

Please tell me your not referring to that crap drill bit that cuts uneven from lee you chuck in a drill?

[goatbrother]

You can get case trim die, it is like a case length guage, the die is open on each end and you use a file to trim the case down. Not very expensive either. I use an RCBS hand crank trimmer.

[nutzy66]

I have been reoading for 15 years. If anyone tells you that you don't need to lube cases, they are FKN lying to you. Going on to the case trimmer I have found the L.E.Wilson trimmer has been the most acurite and cost efective. Yes I know my spelling sucks. On to the dies, I have used everybrand of dies an I found RCBS is the best allaround. You don't need the comp dies, I shoot comp and when I tryed the comp dies they did not make a bit of differance. Use the FL dies unless you are going to load brass from a specific gun due to the fact when you neck size to a specific gun you are using a fire formed round. You also can't use neck sized rounds in a pump gun like the 7600, or a semiauto due to the fact that the rounds will jam up going in to the chamber. On the other hand if you can go with neck sizing it is more acurite. The key to reloading rifle round is constancy, and book keeping. Have funit is agreat thing to get in to and it gets you away from the wife. Good luck.