Long boring post but just wanna share my info,
Ayear ago last jan. I had a rem 700 LH 270 rebarreled to 6.5 Gibbs by Ray Romain, its a kreiger 8 twist 29.5" long, following Rays load reccomendations I managed to ruin alot of cases.
Anytime I loaded up to 3100 fps or above with a 140 gr bullet the primer pocket was gone, I could run 58 gr or re22 at 3070 fps and it was fine, any more and the case was toast. Ray assured me that 62 gr of re22 was "the load" and it would run 3300 fps in a rifle built by him.
The only exception was a lapua 139 gr scenar, I could run them 3280 fps, pockets were a bit loose but could be loaded once more. So for deer season '07 I used the lapua's, accuracy has never been an issue, the rifle shoots anything well, but I didn't want to burn the barrel up making cases that would last 1 round. I was at my wits end.
So on a hunch I took a 140 a-max and seated it with the base at the base of the neck, then seated it .030" deeper, took that case and the rifle to a local smith and had him cut the throat out that long.
I got a good deal on some 140 berger VLD's, and after rethroating took 1 case, loaded with 61 gr of re22, and fired, reloaded and fired again and again, the case lasted 4 rounds those shots chrony'd 3244, 3255, 3256, 3232. It would now outrun a 264 win mag by 250 fps and with 8 gr less powder (according to my sierra manual). But how would it shoot, well I had done a bit of sighting in on the new 8.5x25x50 mark4 loopy so I set a target up sun eve at 100 yards and shot a 3 shot group. I had plugged all my info into exbal and knew I needed 2.5" high at 100 to make my normal 300 yard zero so I madea scope correction and fired 1 more shot, was 1/2 " low for a 300 yard zero so I went up 1/4 MOA (.261") and called it good.
I set the target up at the farthest point that I could see which the leica 1200said was 610 yards and fired 3 more shots, here is a pic of the target, the 100 yard group fired off a bipod measured .437", the 3 shots at 610 yds went into 6.2" this is with a breeze shifting constantly from 0-4 mph, I dialed in a 2 mph wind correction, and mirage was bad since the sun was still up, all in all I'm pretty happy with this preliminary test.
RR
Did you ask the smith about it? Maybe he was using Lapua brass...???
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lapua doesn't make 270 win brass, I did speak with darrel cassell, his 6.5 would run 3300 with 62 gr of re22, but it was throated very long (155 smk seated bullet base to neck)
RR
Maybe "DC" used 06 brass necked down...they used to make, but not sure anymore if they do. I would think that 3100-3200 would be more than enough to hunt whitetails and bear in PA....3300 would depend on the individual rifle..some would get bolt sticky with the amounts of powder your talking about and some would not be bothered at all..it's an individual thing per rifle.. long throating will give you more internal space but at what cost..the throat would take a beating and the brass wouldn't be happy either...just keep her toned down a tad, save the throat, brass and barrel.. Six inch groups at 600 yards is more than enough to take on whitetails...after that 600-1000+...I'd switch over to .30 cal or .338 for the extra energy for sidehilling...GLAD to see old Ray is still at work..Not many smith's today even mess with any of the Gibb's anymore..
guffey, since the throat reaming, it takes 61 gr of re22 just fine, no sticky extraction or heavy bolt lift. before cutting the throat out, if I took rays advise on loading shells it would blow primers with full power loads with rem brass, and blow primers while fireforming with noslers. I'll let it ride at 3250 for a while.
Frank, DC was using rem 270 brass and a 30" Hart barrel, he wants to take advantage of the .046" longer neck to shoot long bullets.when this barrel goes it'll be replaced by a broughton 5C, 8 twist 30" barrel chambered in 6.5 gibbs using a 30/06 length case, and will use lapua brass, cut rifled barrels are just slower by nature.
RR
Keep up the good work RR. It gives me something to aspire towards. I really like your info and although I'll never probably be able to make your shots, I know someone can. Means I need a lot more work. Got to get to loading again after I finish my boat.
mello, I'm an average shot, anyone can do what I do, the hardest thing since I got obsessed with this is convincing yourself that it ain't that far.
RR
Ridge Runner, a friend took 5 A3 Springfield riflesand built 57MM Gibbs, magnificent rifles but one came back, he built the rifles and made the reamer buthadsomeone else cut the chambers.When all else failed he ask me for ideals, knowing him for 30 years, I knew I was wasting our time looking for the obvious, we agreed on a time to come over and then go to the range. He wanted an ideal as to where to start, seems there was a narrow window with powder and bullets, below and above, the groups would go from one hole to shotgun.[/align][/align]I told him the first thing I was going to determine was the max. seating length, he told me the max. seating length was determined by the length of the box, I told him to leave the box, floor plate spring and follower at home, all I needed was 3 formed cases with the primer' flash hole drilled to the diameter that would accommodate a cleaning rod or wood dowel, I told him we were going to seat a bullet, chamber(no primer, no powder and bolt removed) and push the bullet out until it hit the rifling, I took the heaviest/longest bullet I had in 7MM, the bullet fell out of the case .200 before it hit the rifling. I did not care about the details or how he was going to correct the problem, another barrel, move the barrel back, re chamber? he will have to change the length of the box and go to a mag or move the barrel back and then fill the stock because of the barrel channel gap.[/align][/align]He knew the man that did the chambers and could not understand why one rifle out of 5 was different, I had to say, 'I do not know' but I believe someone assumed all barrels are alike, even when the barrels areconsecutivebarrelsfrom the rifling machine. I believe one barrel was .0005 to .001 smaller in diameter, this forced the man that chambered and test fired the rifles with 'one hot' load to throat the rifle to lower the pressure rather than reduce the powder charge then work the loads up untilhigh pressure was indicated on the fired cases. [/align][/align]The man that owned the rifle could have had the rifle throat-ed because of what he heard about Weatherby but I was assured that did not happen.[/align][/align]It was not up to me to determine who but what, I know, to my friend, it did not make sense and he still can not figure out why, to me,he can stare at itor fix it.[/align][/align]The same conflict comes up when someone finds the throat will allow longer OAL ammo than the box will allow, some rifles were designed to protect the loader from themselves, my friend has regretted building the rifles using the Remington 03A3s, that is his problem, all I need is for someone to tell me one part is not correct to the rifle, I have located a (sport type)stock formy Mexican Mauser, I will determine how it shoots 7X57 and go from there.[/align][/align]"following Rays load reccomendations I managed to ruin a lot of cases", the reason for my first question: it sounded like he handed you a rifle and told you how to load for it, the advice you would give anyone would be to start loadsreduced by10% and work up from there.[/align][/align]F. Guffey[/align][/align]
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guffey, ray instucted me by phone to size to a crush fit and load 54 gr of IMR 4831 to fireform, that load would blow primers with nosler brass and flatten primers bad with rem or win, then he said to load a ff'd case with 62 gr of re22 and fire, it blew every primer with that load. I think the problem was my rifle was throated for 140's and the other rifles he built were chambered for the 155's.
Ray did tell me after I called him that I had a cut barrel and may have to back off 1 grain, but it still ruined cases at 61 gr.
RR
ok, bear with me
