Loading or fire-forming the 8mm/06
08-01-2008, 07:25 PM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,476
Loading or fire-forming the 8mm/06
Hello all,
I am finally at the end of the ammo loaded years ago by my grandfather, and have also loaded all the previously fired brass from this gun a number of times.
I wanted to start fresh with some new brass and components for new load recipes.
I now have a bag of 100 new unfired 30/06 brass to use for this 8mm/06 gun. Is the easiest way to load this brass simply to run the .323 expanded ball through it and then just load as usual? I would suspect that I would have to fire it at least once in the gun to havetrue chamber formed brass.....
Opinions and suggestions?
I am finally at the end of the ammo loaded years ago by my grandfather, and have also loaded all the previously fired brass from this gun a number of times.
I wanted to start fresh with some new brass and components for new load recipes.
I now have a bag of 100 new unfired 30/06 brass to use for this 8mm/06 gun. Is the easiest way to load this brass simply to run the .323 expanded ball through it and then just load as usual? I would suspect that I would have to fire it at least once in the gun to havetrue chamber formed brass.....
Opinions and suggestions?
08-01-2008, 08:27 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 3,516
RE: Loading or fire-forming the 8mm/06
Use Imperial Sizing Wax it works very well. Neck up your cases slowly and smoothly, so you will not split the necks. Lube the inner and outter diameter of the necks lightly. Good luck.
08-02-2008, 08:12 AM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,476
RE: Loading or fire-forming the 8mm/06
Thanks to you both
handloader1,
Since I am going only from the 30/06 brass to the 8mm opening (.308 to .323 or a bit more for bullet seating) do you think I need to have a mid-step to incrementally open up the neck? Is it to abrupt to go straight to the 8mm expander ball directly from the 30/06 brass? And thanks for the tip of the Imperial Sizing Wax...
Ridge Runner,
The cornmeal you mention is of course cornmeal tumbling media, right? And the twisted up worm of paper towel just needs to be big enough to plug up the mouth so the powder and corn meal doesn't fall out right? Or should the paper towel plug be really jammed in extremely tight? And lastly, pointing the gun down at a 45 degree angle should be ample to keep the burnt cornmeal out of the chamber, eh?
Again, thanks to you both for the tips, ... and anyone else please throw your tips and/or experience my way.
John
handloader1,
Since I am going only from the 30/06 brass to the 8mm opening (.308 to .323 or a bit more for bullet seating) do you think I need to have a mid-step to incrementally open up the neck? Is it to abrupt to go straight to the 8mm expander ball directly from the 30/06 brass? And thanks for the tip of the Imperial Sizing Wax...
Ridge Runner,
The cornmeal you mention is of course cornmeal tumbling media, right? And the twisted up worm of paper towel just needs to be big enough to plug up the mouth so the powder and corn meal doesn't fall out right? Or should the paper towel plug be really jammed in extremely tight? And lastly, pointing the gun down at a 45 degree angle should be ample to keep the burnt cornmeal out of the chamber, eh?
Again, thanks to you both for the tips, ... and anyone else please throw your tips and/or experience my way.
John
08-02-2008, 08:41 AM
#4
Spike
Join Date: May 2008
Location:
Posts: 39
RE: Loading or fire-forming the 8mm/06
8MM/06, to form 8MM/06 from 30/06, according to RCBS, run the 30/06 casethrough an 8MM/06 sizer die meaning no forming is necessary, the problem comes when you size the cases/neck size for the second round of shooting using a 30/06 die, the neck does a lot of traveling when going from .308 + or - to .323 + or -, back to 308 and then to .323.
If military 30/06 cases are used, the designation '30/06' is not an issue on the head stamp and if the cases are new, moving the neck from .308 to .323 is not an issue, I had the opportunity to pick-up mew unfired LC Match cases from Pat's reloading in Ohio, these cases work so well, I hate to use them, afraid I will run out.
The first set of cases I used were 280 Remington, again, moving the shoulder froward is the difficult part (without firing), I made a set of head space gages and used them to chamber the rifle. Even though the 280 Remington cases are longer than the 30/06 cases, trimming is a perceived problem,when necking the case from 7MM(.284) to 8MM, the case will squat (compress) as much as .025.
F, Guffey
If military 30/06 cases are used, the designation '30/06' is not an issue on the head stamp and if the cases are new, moving the neck from .308 to .323 is not an issue, I had the opportunity to pick-up mew unfired LC Match cases from Pat's reloading in Ohio, these cases work so well, I hate to use them, afraid I will run out.
The first set of cases I used were 280 Remington, again, moving the shoulder froward is the difficult part (without firing), I made a set of head space gages and used them to chamber the rifle. Even though the 280 Remington cases are longer than the 30/06 cases, trimming is a perceived problem,when necking the case from 7MM(.284) to 8MM, the case will squat (compress) as much as .025.
F, Guffey
08-03-2008, 03:37 AM
#6
Spike
Join Date: May 2008
Location:
Posts: 39
RE: Loading or fire-forming the 8mm/06
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?t=82579&pageNum=0&tabI d=1&categoryId=10253&categoryString=9315** *652***670***9013***
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?t=82579&pageNum=0&tabI d=1&categoryId=7387&categoryString=9315*** 652***670***9013***
Ridge Runner, Lapua 30/06 brass is close to $75.00 per 100, Remington 30/06 brass is $43.00 per 100, I paid$80.00 per 1,000for the LC, if I had purchased the Lapua cases, I would not have had enough money left over to purchase dies, point being regardless of what I shoot, cases will never cost me more than .10 cents each if I have the dies.
I built a rifle chambered in a30 Gibbs variation, before 'fire forming' the brass, I got a lot of advice, most of the advice had to do with cream of wheat, oatmeal, etc., my answer to this advice was I was going to fire form the cases once, then I get the response "I know what you mean, I have had to fire some cases three times to get the case blown out".From beginning to end, the cases shortened as much as .030, for some variations of the 30 Gibbs a case that is 2.460 would be perfect but I needed cases that were 2.500 after 'fire forming'. I used 200 grain bullet with a maximum load of H4895 for a 150 grain bullet, perfect results and I onlyhad to do it once. That is fire forming,Iformed the cases by firing them in the chamber, this is not necessary with an 8MM/06, the forming is done with adie.
I would not expect a loss of accuracy with an 8MM/06 usingfactory ammo or reloads, nor would I expect much of an improvement when firing the cases the second time,and I do not think cream of wheat, oatmeal or another fillersaves money if the practice of using it results in 2 out of 3 failures.
MIDWAYUSA did list 8MM/06 cases,$38.00 for 20, for that kind of money, I could have a set of diesincluding a neck sizer die, it is as though the dies are free after Iform 100 LC cases or SL, TW, DM, UT or EW cases.
F. Guffey
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?t=82579&pageNum=0&tabI d=1&categoryId=7387&categoryString=9315*** 652***670***9013***
Ridge Runner, Lapua 30/06 brass is close to $75.00 per 100, Remington 30/06 brass is $43.00 per 100, I paid$80.00 per 1,000for the LC, if I had purchased the Lapua cases, I would not have had enough money left over to purchase dies, point being regardless of what I shoot, cases will never cost me more than .10 cents each if I have the dies.
I built a rifle chambered in a30 Gibbs variation, before 'fire forming' the brass, I got a lot of advice, most of the advice had to do with cream of wheat, oatmeal, etc., my answer to this advice was I was going to fire form the cases once, then I get the response "I know what you mean, I have had to fire some cases three times to get the case blown out".From beginning to end, the cases shortened as much as .030, for some variations of the 30 Gibbs a case that is 2.460 would be perfect but I needed cases that were 2.500 after 'fire forming'. I used 200 grain bullet with a maximum load of H4895 for a 150 grain bullet, perfect results and I onlyhad to do it once. That is fire forming,Iformed the cases by firing them in the chamber, this is not necessary with an 8MM/06, the forming is done with adie.
I would not expect a loss of accuracy with an 8MM/06 usingfactory ammo or reloads, nor would I expect much of an improvement when firing the cases the second time,and I do not think cream of wheat, oatmeal or another fillersaves money if the practice of using it results in 2 out of 3 failures.
MIDWAYUSA did list 8MM/06 cases,$38.00 for 20, for that kind of money, I could have a set of diesincluding a neck sizer die, it is as though the dies are free after Iform 100 LC cases or SL, TW, DM, UT or EW cases.
F. Guffey
08-03-2008, 08:35 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,476
RE: Loading or fire-forming the 8mm/06
So, a perfect compromise would be to find the cheapest bullets for my .323 bore and have at it at the range thus fireforming and having some plinking fun at the same time.
I can see that saving the cost of bullets and powder would help, but this gun will likely be used for about 75-100 rounds per year at the range, and a couple shots in the field during deer season. So I'll likely do a bit of both ... fireforming with the filler AND full length sizing and loading .. and then checking my results after 20 round of each method.
Thanks again for the advice .... I've loaded quite a bit for my 7 X 57 and my 243, but haven't yet loaded any 8mm/06 brass that hadn't already been fired in my chamber.
I can see that saving the cost of bullets and powder would help, but this gun will likely be used for about 75-100 rounds per year at the range, and a couple shots in the field during deer season. So I'll likely do a bit of both ... fireforming with the filler AND full length sizing and loading .. and then checking my results after 20 round of each method.
Thanks again for the advice .... I've loaded quite a bit for my 7 X 57 and my 243, but haven't yet loaded any 8mm/06 brass that hadn't already been fired in my chamber.
08-04-2008, 06:31 AM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,476
RE: Loading or fire-forming the 8mm/06
Now, that's what I'm talking about!!... With the cost of supplies and such, I'm all about having fun at the range, tuning up some loads, and saving a buck.
In looking over the specs for the 30/06 loaded round and the 8mm/06 loaded round (Sierra book, 3rd edition) I notice only a case length difference of 0.01 in length .... I guess in checking all the 30/06 brass before resizing the neck I'll find those that may need trimming.
As long as the brass fits into my LymanEZ Case guage I don't need to worry about the 0.01 extra length do I? Unless of course I find the brass is being jammed into the chamber.
In looking over the specs for the 30/06 loaded round and the 8mm/06 loaded round (Sierra book, 3rd edition) I notice only a case length difference of 0.01 in length .... I guess in checking all the 30/06 brass before resizing the neck I'll find those that may need trimming.
As long as the brass fits into my LymanEZ Case guage I don't need to worry about the 0.01 extra length do I? Unless of course I find the brass is being jammed into the chamber.