45-70 Suggestions

[statjunk]

Hey guys,

I've been remodeling my house so I haven't had time to really shoot much. I just picked up a 45-70 Marlin Guide gun in stainless.

Any suggestions on starting powder, bullets and primers?

Thanks

Tom

[statjunk]

Also wanted to ad that I plan on using this for short range hunting and general bench rest shooting.

Thanks

Tom

If I had that gun, I would make two loads. One for deer hunting and the other something bigger. I have been using 300gr Partitions and IMR4198for a while now, and not getting the best accuracy. So I will try out 300gr sierra HP, and IMR3031. I have a microgroove, and wish I had ballard rifling. If I was you, I would try some TruShot 405gr laods gas checked with IMR3031.

[statjunk]

I just did a search and it appears that they are not selling the leverlution bullets yet. Is this everyone's understanding?

BC,

Not sure if you remember but I haven't been reloading for very long. Could you please explain what a gas checked bullet is?

Also I know what micro grooves are but what is the ballard groove? Is that just the standard rifling groove?

What kind of accuracy were you getting with the partitions?

The Trushot 405gr, who manufactures that one?

Obviously recoil is subjective but what are your thoughts on the difference in recoil between a 300gr and 400gr bullet? Is it dramatic?

Thanks

Tom

[statjunk]

Also I'd like to set the rifle up for some universal loading that will allow me to take anything up to black bears. I'm going on a black bear hunt this year and I'd like this to back up the 300 wm.

Tom

ORIGINAL: statjunk

I just did a search and it appears that they are not selling the leverlution bullets yet. Is this everyone's understanding?

Nope, not selling that or the 200gr SST for my 460[:'(]

ORIGINAL: statjunk
Not sure if you remember but I haven't been reloading for very long. Could you please explain what a gas checked bullet is?

When shooting cast bullets, you might get to a point where leading is a big deal with hot loads. So they place a gas check or copper piece at the base. It assists with leading.

ORIGINAL: statjunk
Also I know what micro grooves are but what is the ballard groove? Is that just the standard rifling groove?

Microgroove is a rifling marlin has a few years ago and is made generally for copper coated bullets. Didn't hold on to the cast very well, and accuracy suffered when the load got to respectable levels. This is the barrel I have on my 45-70. All new ones are ballard and works better for both cast or cup bullets. It will say on the barrel what you have.

ORIGINAL: statjunk
What kind of accuracy were you getting with the partitions?

With 45-46gr of IMR4198, I get 3MOA and around 1970fps. When I start going up in load, I get verticle stringing for some odd reason, but with 51gr of IMR4198, I am getting over 2130fps.

ORIGINAL: statjunk
The Trushot 405gr, who manufactures that one?

Oregon Trail makes quality cast bullets, and most are not gas checked, and you buy in large quanity. But they have a brand called Trushot, that are gaschecked and some fine cast bullets. I have some of these 430gr bullets, but like I said, when I get to some respectable velocities over 1500fps, my accuracy shoots down because I have a microgroover barrel
http://www.laser-cast.com/trueshot.html

ORIGINAL: statjunk
Obviously recoil is subjective but what are your thoughts on the difference in recoil between a 300gr and 400gr bullet? Is it dramatic?

Very dramatic. If you shoot factory remington 405gr stuff, this only loaded to 20KPSI, then its no big deal. But if you try to really harness some power out of your 45-70 like 430gr bullets at 1700fps, then it gets pretty stiff. In my opinion, the 300gr loads even out to 2200fps are a *****cat compared to hefty 405-500gr loads.

[statjunk]

BC,

What are the advantages of shooting Cast bullets? I'd like to keep this rather simple and if all else being equal or approximately equal I'd like to shoot a copper coated bullet like I shoot in my 300WM and .308.

Is there a real advantage of the 400gr bullets over the 300gr bullets for black bear at short yardage? I don't want to subject myself to excessive recoil if I don't need to.

Any body out there have some loads that work consistenly for you in a Marlin Guid gun in .45-70?

Thanks

Tom

Cast loads usually penetate better and won't fall apart. I know I would use 405gr load on bears. I like to keep my 300gr for deer. But a partition is a good bullet. I woudln't mind trying them on bear.

[HEAD0001]

If this is your first 45-70 then welcome to a whole new world. IMO you have purchased the most fun cartridge, and rifle that you can have. Here is how I would start.

You really do not want to mix cast bullet's and jacketed bullets in your rifle. It is best to stay with one or the other. I prefer the cast bullet's. But then I cast my own. The problem with jacketed bullet's is simple. The 45-70 is so addictive that you can not put it down, and jacketed bullet's are very expensive.

I think the 405 grain cast bullet is perfect for the 45-70. I do not use a gas check with mine. I can run the bullet up to 1600fps without any leading problems, and I cast with straight Wheel Weight, and I do not water quench.

As far as load's are concerned, I prefer RL7. I like RL7 because it gives good case fill. A lot of shooter's use faster powder's, but I do not. IMO they use faster powder's to give more loads per pound. And they are correct they will get more loads per pound, but I prefer case fill over saving a nickel.

My favorite load is 40.0 grains of RL7 under a 405 grain cast bullet. In your Marlin this load should give you around 1600 fps. This load is stout, but not punishing. I shoot this load in four of my five 45-70's, and I get great results. The load is devastating on game. This load is too heavy for my Trapdoor.

You will need to crimp your bullet for the Marlin. I prefer the taper crimp(Redding) over the roll crimp. IMO the taper crimp is less critical with pressure, and soft lead can be affected by crimp's. As I am sure you know casings must be trimmed for a crimp to be used, and trim length is not as critical with a taper crimp.

I also suggest you buy the Lyman M-Die for your belling. This is a great die that will allow you to adjust your belling very closely, thus this die yields less retention problem's. You also want to FL resize your brass.

Who knows, you may even want to try Black Powder. I load and shoot alot of 45-70, PM me if you have any questions. Tom.

[johnny2]

With the Micro groove barrel,cast bullets are not to good if you want higher velocity....The micro is made for jacketed bullets...I have used the 300 grain cast in my Marlin Ballard barrel..All this is is a different type of rifleing..The ballard is a deep cut button rifeling....
RL-7 isa good choice and so is 3031

If you are going to shoot cast bullets then xmp-5744 is a good choice..It is made more to duplicate the black powder..

Cast bullets made from wheel weights usually work pretty good..The only thing is,some weights have nichol or babbet in them..This makes them harder,with a BRN of 10 to 15....I use a softer bullet for bear hunting as it will muchroom better than the harder cast bullets will...One thing you may have to be careful with is some bullets will make the O.A.L too long and they will not cycle through the action..

That is a nice looking Sharps rifle you have there-what make and model is that....Mine is a 1884 Sharps made by Pedersoli..I also have a 1884 50-70.I haven't done much with that one..Maybe this summer..Good luck with your 45-70....