I prevously used a Lee hand die set to neck size my .270 loads. Now I have a 2-die RCBS set but its a full-length die set. I don't want to full length size (FL). My cases are fire-formed to my gun and neck sizing is all I need.
The question is, how do I know that I am getting enough sizing of the neck if I back out the full-length die to avoid sizing the rest of the case? Should I measure the inside case mouth dia. and compare it to one sized by the Lee hand loader or a FL sized case? I know I can buy a neck size only die, but I know it can be done with the FL die too.
take afireformed 270 case and stick a 30 cal expander ball down the neck, now put your 270 FLS in and leave it screwed up a good bit, start resizing it a lil at a time, screwing the die in a bit each time, when you start getting close, try it in your rifle each time, when the case chambers with just a bit of resistance, screw the die down 1/8th to 1/4th turn and lock it down, the die is now set to partial resize to fit your chamber.
RR
Place your die in your press and crank it down until it touches your shell holder. Then, back it out 1/8th to 1/4 turn.This will partially size your case.One more thing to do, though. Seat a bullet in the partially formed case, after sizing, and make sure that it fits your chamber. When you seat your bullet, you are going to change your neck dimensions a few thousands of an inch, and they may not chamber easily.If this happens, turn the full length sizer die in another 1/8 th turn, and your problem should be solved. If you place your full length sizer in your press, and it does not cam over center, you are only partially sizing. You should be able to see the changes in your neck dimensions as you continue to screw the die down. If you remove your expander rod/ball assembly,then you will have no resistance when you remove your case to check how far you are sizing it,making it easier for you.Once you are satisfied with your results,lock the die,put the die back together, and you are good to go.
There are several things that come into play when you attempt to use a full length sizing die to neck size a case. screwing the die up one turn isn't always going to give you the results you want. The more your case expands the more you're going too have too raise the die. With the die all the way down you'll full length size the case. As you raise the die, depending on how much the case expands when fired, the die will partially resize the case. Part of the neck will be sized and part of the case body will be sized. This case with the "partially resized" body may be distorted enough that the case will not be chambered in the same rifle in which it was fired. If the die is raised high enough so the die doesn't touch the case body at all during the sizing operation, then the case will be neck sized. If the case has a long neck, like the .270W, then you may well have enough of the neck sized to properly hold the bullet. If you're loading a .308W, then you may have a problem. The heck of it is is that at some point you're going to want to full length resize some cases and you're just going to mess up the finely adjusted die again. It is so much easier just to buy a separate neck sizing die. Good luck,
What you need to do is buy some tools to measure your neck to actually see what is happening. The idea of using carbon from a match or markers is just asking for problems. Buy yourself a head and shoulders gauge, and see how much yoru FL sizer is actually knocking back your shoulders.
I prevously used a Lee hand die set to neck size my .270 loads. Now I have a 2-die RCBS set but its a full-length die set. I don't want to full length size (FL). My cases are fire-formed to my gun and neck sizing is all I need.
The question is, how do I know that I am getting enough sizing of the neck if I back out the full-length die to avoid sizing the rest of the case? Should I measure the inside case mouth dia. and compare it to one sized by the Lee hand loader or a FL sized case? I know I can buy a neck size only die, but I know it can be done with the FL die too.
Please advise.
Thanks,
dr
As a general rule, a neck has to be sized down fro the case mouth one bullet diameter backto securely hold new bullet. This means that you need to size about .277" of the neck before loading the powder charge and seating the bullet.
What I do is remove the expander buttonstem, screw the sizing die into the press with a trimmed cartridge in the shellholder, and screw the die down until it contacts the case mouth. ThenI screw it in further a little at a time until I can see that the die is sizing down .277" or so ofthe neck for a .270, etc. This amount of neck sizing can be approximate. It is not too critical, as long as it is sufficient, and all are done the SAME. Then I lock the sizing die in that position, re-install theexpander stem, and size the rst of the cases. If you are having difficulty seeing how much of the neck is being sized, take a match and "smoke" the case neck so you CAN SEE what the sizing die is touching at the top of the stroke. If you do it this way, neither the case head or the shoulder is reduced enough that it no longer fits your individual chamber well.
Now this approach is ONLY for sizing the necks of cases that are to be used in a rifle that you already know for sure that the cases will chamber in!!In addition, itOBVIOUSLYonly works for some of us, as Big Country's comment indicates. But it works for ME, when I can't just look at the sized case and tell how much of it has been sized, which I CAN do 99.99% of the time without "smoking" or buying a bunch of additional tools for the purpose!
In addition, I suppose it is CONCEIVABLE that partial FL resizing with a FL die could distort a piece of brass so much that it will not rechamber even in the rifle it was last fired in, but in over 50 years of reloading ammunition, this has never happened to ME or any other reloaderI know personally, so I would not worry too much about something like this happening! I think you would have to actively concentrate on doing something really wrong while sizing a case to get it so distorted it would not go back into the rifle it was fired in. (No doubt there are some reloaders who are proficient enough to do this. These guysare also, no doubt, serious contenders for the Darwin Awards..... )
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"Bitte, trinks du das Wasser nicht. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen."
What you need to do is buy some tools to measure your neck to actually see what is happening. The idea of using carbon from a match or markers is just asking for problems.
It is??? That's news to me, as i've been using a marker since the 60's without problems. I have no idea, how many folks i've taught to reload over the years, and that'show i also taught them to do it. I never had one come back with a problem of any kind from doing so...
If you can't "see what's happening" using a marker, then you need to have someone show you how touse that methodproperly too...
BTW, to the origional poster: almost without exception, you can't only "neck size" with a fl. sizer die. Allyour "really"doing, is sizeing the case "less" because you don't push it all the way into the die...If you really want to only neck size, you need to but another die...
What you need to do is buy some tools to measure your neck to actually see what is happening. The idea of using carbon from a match or markers is just asking for problems.
It is??? That's news to me, as i've been using a marker since the 60's without problems. I have no idea, how many folks i've taught to reload over the years, and that'show i also taught them to do it. I never had one come back with a problem of any kind from doing so...
If you can't "see what's happening" using a marker, then you need to have someone show you how touse that methodproperly too...
My way works. Bottom line. My way works within .002" every time.I will guarantee you i can load ammo with the necks within .002" everytime.In fact, I have proven to several old timers that used this fool way that they can't, getting all that crap inside thier FL dies. People with much more experience than you. I know, you could never learn anything on these pages. Your just too good.
What you need to do is buy some tools to measure your neck to actually see what is happening. The idea of using carbon from a match or markers is just asking for problems.
It is??? That's news to me, as i've been using a marker since the 60's without problems. I have no idea, how many folks i've taught to reload over the years, and that'show i also taught them to do it. I never had one come back with a problem of any kind from doing so...
If you can't "see what's happening" using a marker, then you need to have someone show you how touse that methodproperly too...
I have proven to several old timers that used this fool way that they can't, getting all that crap inside thier FL dies. People with much more experience than you. I know, you could never learn anything on these pages. Your just too good.
OLD TIMERS = FOOLS???
BC, you exhibit ONE CHARACTERISTIC that I find upsetting. Whenever someone points out that a method you don't agree with has worked well for them, you attack thempersonally. That's immature.
I will concede that the way you do it, your results may be to closer tolerances than mine. Yet, myammunition usuallymeets my requirements. Since I am not a benchrest competitor, I find that 1 to 1.5 MOA issufficient for my needs.
__________________
"Bitte, trinks du das Wasser nicht. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen."
What you need to do is buy some tools to measure your neck to actually see what is happening. The idea of using carbon from a match or markers is just asking for problems.
It is??? That's news to me, as i've been using a marker since the 60's without problems. I have no idea, how many folks i've taught to reload over the years, and that'show i also taught them to do it. I never had one come back with a problem of any kind from doing so...
If you can't "see what's happening" using a marker, then you need to have someone show you how touse that methodproperly too...
I have proven to several old timers that used this fool way that they can't, getting all that crap inside thier FL dies. People with much more experience than you. I know, you could never learn anything on these pages. Your just too good.
OLD TIMERS = FOOLS???
BC, you exhibit ONE CHARACTERISTIC that I find upsetting. Whenever someone points out that a method you don't agree with has worked well for them, you attack thempersonally. That's immature.
I will concede that the way you do it, your results may be to closer tolerances than mine. Yet, myammunition usuallymeets my requirements. Since I am not a benchrest competitor, I find that 1 to 1.5 MOA issufficient for my needs.
No, I never said old timer were fools. Far from. Sorry you ever got that. Listen Eld. I get attacked my others who thing thier methods are better. Like DM. Ithink he is very immature for his age and very insecure. The most immature older gentleman on the page, in fact any forum I have visited. Maybe one or too little more insecure than him on accurate reloading, but anyway he is up there. He could give alot of help if he wanted, but decides not too. Like his 12 year old actions on the caliber of the week. That and other posts showed me what he was all about.
Eld, you are one person who I sincerely think and has proven that you know your stuff and you act very mature and civil. I have nothing but respect for you. And hope I never offend you. And take it to heart that you lost respect for me over this post.
And I shouldn't play into his hands, but I am a jokster. And sometimes go too far.
Your right, the carbon method, works somewhat. So does partial full length just until its hard to close your bolt. But I am after perfect numbers. I don't know why. Its my nature. I love little clover leafs. I put 120% in every hobby. Some, sure 1.5MOA is fine. For me, its a never ending battle or sell the gun to get what I want. And I have a bunch that I am happy. I think I have came to the conclusion, I am a bowhunter first, and just enjoying reloading more than actually hunting with a rifle.
I did a bunch of tests one time seeing the effects of Partial FL sizing. Since you can't cam over, it varied the shoulders greatly. Even pulling out the expander ball, it did. I prefer to have a friend of mine at a machine shop modify my die somewhat where i can FL size but still only knock back the shoulders .001". I know I ruin the warranty. But its worth it to me. And usually only have to take off .002". I only have done this on two dies, for a particular guns where it mattered to me. RCBS as you know will do this for you too.
Neck Sizing with a Full Length Die
