Fire-Forming .280 Improved
11-16-2006, 02:08 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 257
Fire-Forming .280 Improved
From what I can gather, there are a few folks on this forum that shoot a .280 AI. I am looking at getting some ammo ready for my new rifle, which should be done in a couple of weeks.
As mentioned in other related threads, Nosler is now making brass in .280 AI, and it already has the 40-deg shoulder. It's not cheap, over a buck a piece, but I will buy some. I am also thinking about fire-forming some of my own brass. What good is owning a wildcat if you don't fully experience the entire tinkering process, right? Does anyone have a good fire-forming load or technique they wish to share?
Or perhaps, rather than buying two sets of dies - both .280 Rem to make the initial fire forming loads and a set of .280 AI dies - should just buy a bunch of .280 factory ammo and get my fire-formed brass that way? Any thoughts?
After the fire-forming is done, what powder(s) does the .280 AI prefer? Have any favorite powders you wish to share?
Thanks for the help.
As mentioned in other related threads, Nosler is now making brass in .280 AI, and it already has the 40-deg shoulder. It's not cheap, over a buck a piece, but I will buy some. I am also thinking about fire-forming some of my own brass. What good is owning a wildcat if you don't fully experience the entire tinkering process, right? Does anyone have a good fire-forming load or technique they wish to share?
Or perhaps, rather than buying two sets of dies - both .280 Rem to make the initial fire forming loads and a set of .280 AI dies - should just buy a bunch of .280 factory ammo and get my fire-formed brass that way? Any thoughts?
After the fire-forming is done, what powder(s) does the .280 AI prefer? Have any favorite powders you wish to share?
Thanks for the help.
11-16-2006, 11:52 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 3,516
RE: Fire-Forming .280 Improved
Get your hands on some .280 Rem. Ackley Improved (40 degree shoulder) dies.
.280 Remington standard cases.
Use a fast powder like IMR 4895 with a light load using standard .280 Rem. data.
Use a 160 gr. or 175 gr. inexpensive bullet, so you can seat the bullet in contact with the lands.
Take your rounds to the range, and fire-form them.
Next time you load these cases use .280 Ackley improved data.
Good luck.
.280 Remington standard cases.
Use a fast powder like IMR 4895 with a light load using standard .280 Rem. data.
Use a 160 gr. or 175 gr. inexpensive bullet, so you can seat the bullet in contact with the lands.
Take your rounds to the range, and fire-form them.
Next time you load these cases use .280 Ackley improved data.
Good luck.
11-17-2006, 10:15 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 257
RE: Fire-Forming .280 Improved
Thanks. I picked up some stuff last night...
100 Remington cases (I prefer Winchester, but their .280's are nickel plated)
1 pound IMR 4895 (plan on using 40 grains to fireform)
1 box Hornady 154gr Interlocks
2 - 50 round ammo boxes
I still need to order the AI dies.
100 Remington cases (I prefer Winchester, but their .280's are nickel plated)
1 pound IMR 4895 (plan on using 40 grains to fireform)
1 box Hornady 154gr Interlocks
2 - 50 round ammo boxes
I still need to order the AI dies.
11-17-2006, 11:47 AM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: Fire-Forming .280 Improved
Dan:
I certainly hope you plan on fireforming some of your own brass....what good is the gun if you aren't going to shoot it!
Seriously, save your money, don't buy brass for a $1 a pop (unless its NE calibers, then buy all you can and resell!).
Buy whatever brand ammo (loaded, in normal 280) you want to use. IE: If you want to load in Rem Cases, buy some inexpensive Rem Core Lokts.
Everytime you fire one of those loaded rounds, it comes out fireformed to YOUR exact chamber. Sort of like a magic trick what?
Not all AI chambers are EXACTLY alike. Which is why I have always been told by my smith not to shoot ammo fire-formed in a gun other than mine. Just passing along what I do, and what I have heard.
I certainly hope you plan on fireforming some of your own brass....what good is the gun if you aren't going to shoot it!
Seriously, save your money, don't buy brass for a $1 a pop (unless its NE calibers, then buy all you can and resell!).
Buy whatever brand ammo (loaded, in normal 280) you want to use. IE: If you want to load in Rem Cases, buy some inexpensive Rem Core Lokts.
Everytime you fire one of those loaded rounds, it comes out fireformed to YOUR exact chamber. Sort of like a magic trick what?
Not all AI chambers are EXACTLY alike. Which is why I have always been told by my smith not to shoot ammo fire-formed in a gun other than mine. Just passing along what I do, and what I have heard.
11-18-2006, 10:50 AM
#5
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,127
RE: Fire-Forming .280 Improved
My fire form load is 22 gr. of H-110 behind a cheap 150 grain bullet - buy them in bulk from Midway. Any bullet weight will work, just make sure the charge is high enough to give a crisp angle to the shoulder juncture. I never have been real big on using cotton balls and/or corn meal to fire form.
Make sure the headspace is set properly - so that a virgin brass case or factory round chambers with a little "umph" on closing the bolt. Otherwise, the firing pin can move the case forward a short distance before the pressure blows out the body and shoulder. This will cause the case to weaken at the web and separate after a few firings. Cure is to simply set the barrel back a little - usually about .006 to .008 if the gunsmith tried to headspace it with standard .280 go/no go gauges.
The powder to use, once you get casesfire formed,is RL 22.
Make sure the headspace is set properly - so that a virgin brass case or factory round chambers with a little "umph" on closing the bolt. Otherwise, the firing pin can move the case forward a short distance before the pressure blows out the body and shoulder. This will cause the case to weaken at the web and separate after a few firings. Cure is to simply set the barrel back a little - usually about .006 to .008 if the gunsmith tried to headspace it with standard .280 go/no go gauges.
The powder to use, once you get casesfire formed,is RL 22.
11-20-2006, 12:21 PM
#6
Typical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Posts: 579
RE: Fire-Forming .280 Improved
IMR4895 and a bullet long enough to be seated well into the lands on our rifle. If you seat the bullet into the lands the case will be held tight to the bolt face and not allow stretching in the web. The 280 AI is an awesome cartridge.
A note on fireforming factory ammo is look at the ammo and see how they are crimped. Remington puts an awful crimp on their factory loads and if you trim your case necks back to remove the crimp the neck will be shortened quite a bit. With the availability of buying the Nosler brass I would go that route for the convenience and not having to form the brass and consume the time. As for forming factory ammo look at the Norma ammo for the 280 there is no horrible crimp and the brass is awesome. But you will have more than a dollar in each case. So as I said I would go with the Nosler Brass.
A note on fireforming factory ammo is look at the ammo and see how they are crimped. Remington puts an awful crimp on their factory loads and if you trim your case necks back to remove the crimp the neck will be shortened quite a bit. With the availability of buying the Nosler brass I would go that route for the convenience and not having to form the brass and consume the time. As for forming factory ammo look at the Norma ammo for the 280 there is no horrible crimp and the brass is awesome. But you will have more than a dollar in each case. So as I said I would go with the Nosler Brass.
11-22-2006, 05:21 PM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: RIO RANCHO NEW MEXICO USA
Posts: 168
RE: Fire-Forming .280 Improved
Dan,
First, what part of Alaska are you in? I lived in Anchorage for awhile. I was ther for the Good Friday quake. That was a humdinger. I left about 3 weeks later. What did they ever do about 4th St?
Back to your question. I made my cases out of .270 Win cases. Using a .30-06 full length sizing die with a tapered expander button. The necks expanded easily. Then using the .280 AI sizing dieI worked on sizing the necks and checking to see if the case would chamber. I used the hump that was raised in the case neck as an artifical shoulder. I sized enough of the neck so the case would chamber with some effort required to close the bolt. Using the .270 case gave me a longer neck that I could trim as I wanted too. It also meant that I could use brass cases rather than nickled cases. I liked H-4350 for the lighter bullets, say 130 and lower. With the 140 grain and heaver, H-4831 was the way to go. CCI #200 worked great with both powders. However, if you're going to work uo loads fo winter hunting, I think I"d use CCI #250 with both powders.
First, what part of Alaska are you in? I lived in Anchorage for awhile. I was ther for the Good Friday quake. That was a humdinger. I left about 3 weeks later. What did they ever do about 4th St?
Back to your question. I made my cases out of .270 Win cases. Using a .30-06 full length sizing die with a tapered expander button. The necks expanded easily. Then using the .280 AI sizing dieI worked on sizing the necks and checking to see if the case would chamber. I used the hump that was raised in the case neck as an artifical shoulder. I sized enough of the neck so the case would chamber with some effort required to close the bolt. Using the .270 case gave me a longer neck that I could trim as I wanted too. It also meant that I could use brass cases rather than nickled cases. I liked H-4350 for the lighter bullets, say 130 and lower. With the 140 grain and heaver, H-4831 was the way to go. CCI #200 worked great with both powders. However, if you're going to work uo loads fo winter hunting, I think I"d use CCI #250 with both powders.
11-22-2006, 06:22 PM
#9
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 257
RE: Fire-Forming .280 Improved
Bob, I live in Anchorage. Fourth Street is alive and well. The '64 quake was long before my time, but I have seen pictures of the damage caused by the quake. We've been through a few quakes since moving here in 2001, but I just can't imagine experiencing something of that magnitude.
Thanks for the tips. I usually have IMR4350 on hand for my .30-06, so I will try it with some 120gr Balistic Tips. I will probably try both IMR4831 (or H4831) and RL-22 for the heavier bullets. When I find a powder that works well, I will buy a big can of it.
Thanks for the tips. I usually have IMR4350 on hand for my .30-06, so I will try it with some 120gr Balistic Tips. I will probably try both IMR4831 (or H4831) and RL-22 for the heavier bullets. When I find a powder that works well, I will buy a big can of it.
11-23-2006, 04:55 PM
#10
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: RIO RANCHO NEW MEXICO USA
Posts: 168
RE: Fire-Forming .280 Improved
Dan,
I once went caribou hunting between Christmas and New Year above the old sheep mountain lodge. It was cold. Close to -30 degrees. I got up on a pair of dandy bulls and couldn't hit them from 150 yards with a '06 that I'd taken everything with. I found that my zero was close to 4' high and left from where I had zero the rifle that August. When the weather warmed up my point of impact went right back to where it had been. I was pretty new too extreme cold weather hunting and the effect it could have on your rifle. For years the only solution was to zero my rifle in the temperature in which I'd be hunting. About seven years ago, Hodgdon brought out their Extreme line of powders. Now I didn't test anything at -30 degrees, but I did test in temperatures in the low teens up to the low 100s degrees and that Extreme powder works. No change in zero, velocity or accuracy. I've gotten to the point that I only use Hodgdon extruded powders.
My oldest son was born in the territory of Alaska and the oldest daughter was born in the state of Alaska. To top it off, a year later I was in Hawaii on business when they became a state. My stay in Alaska in '64 was the last time I was there. Shame, I kind of always wanted to go back again.
I once went caribou hunting between Christmas and New Year above the old sheep mountain lodge. It was cold. Close to -30 degrees. I got up on a pair of dandy bulls and couldn't hit them from 150 yards with a '06 that I'd taken everything with. I found that my zero was close to 4' high and left from where I had zero the rifle that August. When the weather warmed up my point of impact went right back to where it had been. I was pretty new too extreme cold weather hunting and the effect it could have on your rifle. For years the only solution was to zero my rifle in the temperature in which I'd be hunting. About seven years ago, Hodgdon brought out their Extreme line of powders. Now I didn't test anything at -30 degrees, but I did test in temperatures in the low teens up to the low 100s degrees and that Extreme powder works. No change in zero, velocity or accuracy. I've gotten to the point that I only use Hodgdon extruded powders.
My oldest son was born in the territory of Alaska and the oldest daughter was born in the state of Alaska. To top it off, a year later I was in Hawaii on business when they became a state. My stay in Alaska in '64 was the last time I was there. Shame, I kind of always wanted to go back again.