Baptismal Regeneration............

Double Creek · 04-27-2005, 02:27 PM

Since the baptism threads, I have been researching and have come up with a few versus.... How could these men have been "saved" before baptism? You would agree that the sin had been washed away in order for the Holy Ghost to come into them wouldn't you? This seems to point that baptism is not a requirement of being saved....

Also, why was Jesus baptized? He was without sin......... No need for remission of sins from Jesus......... He was baptised b/c it is an outward expression of an inward change......
Well, let me rephrase, he was giving us an example of what to do, which IMO is ultimatley and outward expression.

ACTS Chapter 10

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Goose 11 · 04-27-2005, 03:03 PM

Acts Chapter 10 was a very special case, the Holy Spirit fell on those gentiles so that the Jewish Christians would accept that God wanted to include all people. That is the FIRST and ONLY time the H.S. came on a convert before baptism. And it was only to teach the Jews to take the gospel to the gentiles.

Double Creek · 04-27-2005, 03:06 PM

I'm not saying either is right at this point, but it does give food for thought.........

What are your thoughts about Jesus being baptized?

Double Creek · 04-27-2005, 03:29 PM

Quote:

that is the only time that phrase is used in the Bible

LBR: How many times does it have to be said before it's true?

Also, I copied this from another thread, not the same topic, but wouldn't this logic apply here as well.

Goose 11 · 04-27-2005, 06:28 PM

DblCreek,

Quote:

Also, I copied this from another thread, not the same topic, but wouldn't this logic apply here as well.

That's a good point, but no it does not apply here, because there are nuerous examples of others that were baptized first, then recieved the Spirit! And some that were baptized and we don't even know that they did get the Spirit, cause it doesn't say. Notice the wording in Acts 8:4-18 , these are Samaritins (?spelling?) so they are "half-breeds" they are not pure Jewish. In verse 17 they had only been baptized, that is they were Christians, but they had not recieved the Spirit. Then the Apostles come down and lay hands on them IN ORDER THAT THEY MAY IMPART THE HOLY SPIRIT TO THE PEOPLE. So we have two different ways the Spirit was given! And as you sited, one verse is enough but check out all these that are the SAME (meaning the order of events) as the case in Samaria:
Ethiopian Eunch - (Not a Jew) - Acts 8
Pentecostians - (Jews) - Acts 2
Saul of Tarsus - (Half-Jew) - Acts 9
Philippian Jailor - (Not a Jew) - Acts 16 --- This one is of much importance to our study because it was after the family of Cornelious in Ax. 10 and was in the order of all the other conversions.

Quote:

What are your thoughts about Jesus being baptized?

Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness! Matthew 3:15. I guess it would be o.k. to say He is an example to us, but that's not why He did it. He had not one sin on His pure soul, nothing needed to be changed, all we know is the prophesy was to be fulfilled. That happened
Thanks for studying with me! Let's continue!
Trae

Double Creek · 04-28-2005, 08:38 AM

Forgiveness of sins COMES BEFORE the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:38).
The gift of the Holy Ghost COMES BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-48).
Therefore, forgiveness of sins COMES BEFORE water baptism.

Goose 11 · 04-28-2005, 09:45 AM

Again, that's a good point, but no it does not apply here, because there are nuerous examples of others that were baptized first, then recieved the Spirit! And some that were baptized and we don't even know that they did get the Spirit, cause it doesn't say. Notice the wording in Acts 8:4-18 , these are Samaritins (?spelling?) so they are "half-breeds" they are not pure Jewish. In verse 17 they had only been baptized, that is they were Christians, but they had not recieved the Spirit. Then the Apostles come down and lay hands on them IN ORDER THAT THEY MAY IMPART THE HOLY SPIRIT TO THE PEOPLE. So we have two different ways the Spirit was given! And as you sited, one verse is enough but check out all these that are the SAME (meaning the order of events) as the case in Samaria:
Ethiopian Eunch - (Not a Jew) - Acts 8
Pentecostians - (Jews) - Acts 2
Saul of Tarsus - (Half-Jew) - Acts 9
Philippian Jailor - (Not a Jew) - Acts 16 --- This one is of much importance to our study because it was after the family of Cornelious in Ax. 10 and was in the order of all the other conversions.

Acts 10 is a once in a dispensation thing! It only happened that way to convince the Jews to take the gospel to the world!

Double Creek · 04-28-2005, 11:19 AM

Thanks Goose, I will research those verses when I have time.....