Paul?

[IL_ray_phillips]

If we do not keep the law then why do Paul say this?

1Cr 14:34 KJV - Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

[cataway]

stating it as such makes it carry over,some would think its a great rule. JBF

[SFC Retired]

You have to remember that under the law, even under God's law to Israel, the woman had almost no rights. It was unfortunate, but God had His reason for doing it. Christianity brought women out of that place of being downtrodden, not permitted to be educated, not permitted to read. Christianity brought the women up on almost an equal level with men. But what have present day women done with that? They've abused it, and anytime you abuse something then it begins to backfire. So Paul is still writing here in light of the culture and the day and time in which he writes, so he says, "Women be subdued, don't be talkative, don't be the one to take authority in the local Church.

So you keep all of the 613 laws? Or do you just pick and choose the ones you think you can keep?

[LBR]

...as also saith the law.

That's not the same as saying "because the law says so", but rather "It's the same command as in the law". Paul is using the familiarity of the law to make a point.

So you keep all of the 613 laws? Or do you just pick and choose the ones you think you can keep?

I've asked a similar question in the past. Never got a straight answer. For me, if it's made clear that a command is brought over from the Old Testament to the new, then it's one that is to be obeyed still.

[IL_ray_phillips]

Originally Posted by LBR

That's not the same as saying "because the law says so", but rather "It's the same command as in the law". Paul is using the familiarity of the law to make a point.



I've asked a similar question in the past. Never got a straight answer. For me, if it's made clear that a command is brought over from the Old Testament to the new, then it's one that is to be obeyed still.

I very well know what the scripture is referring to. I was just curious how some would try to justify not obeying and get around it!

[SFC Retired]

Paul is not my God as you say, but:

Ephesians 3:2 (King James Version)

2If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
In Exodus chapter 3, up on Mount Sinai, God, spoke to Moses, and gave to him the Law, and then Moses takes the Law down the mountain and dispenses it to the Nation of Israel. So this was the dispensation of Law, and that’s the way I look at it in Scriptures. Now some 1500 years later after the Damascus Road experience for Paul, the same God does something different, which is His prerogative, because He’s Sovereign. Now He calls out to Mount Sinai, a different man whom we know as the apostle Paul. And to Paul God reveals these doctrines of Grace, and Paul in turn dispenses these doctrines of Grace, not so much to the Nation of Israel, but to the Gentile world.
So you say I make too much of Paul. No. Paul knew only one thing, and that was "Christ crucified for our sins, and risen from the dead," and you can’t find that anywhere else in Scripture that you are to believe that for salvation except in Paul’s writings. So I don’t elevate Paul above that. But you see God, as He kept things secret has decided that it’s through this man that He would reveal the things that had been kept secret. That’s why Paul, over and over, uses the term "revelation," how God revealed to me such and such, and he writes over and over again.

All of our doctrine for today is found in Paul’s letters.

II Corinthians 11:5
"For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles."

Wow! What does that say? I was not a half of step behind Peter.
II Corinthians 11:22-23a
"Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I. 23. Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more:..."

See how plain that is? That’s the Holy Spirit writing through the pen of the apostle Paul, that Paul is more the minister of Christ than anybody back there at Jerusalem. And this is what we have to understand.

[Chuck7]

I beleive the new Testament gentile Christian is under the law of the Spirit..there are no set laws except loving God and your neighbor as yourself..

The law of the Spirit is the law of faith...when The Spirit tells me to do something..and I disobey..it's a sin..If he tells me to slow down and I don't it's a sin..and my joy and peace is gone..and my faith is diminshed.

However; if I obey..my spiritual senses get more acute to His voice..and their is joy and peace in my heart..

Only Spirit filled Christians can be under the law of the Spirit..I'm referring to Romans 8 here..the rest are under the law of sin and death,,.

The man or women who truly loves God is under the law of the Spirit..also see John 3:3 like the wind..The Christian doesn't see the Spirit but you know that you know..

As far as keeping the 10 commandments..a Spirti filled loving Christian would be keeping them automatically..except for the Keeping of the Sabbath..and Col. tells us not to judge anyone for not keeping the Sabbath or New moons..Most gentiles go to church on the Lord's Day..Sunday...

Example of law of the SPirit...I don't see why I can't listen to a good preacher on the internet..HOWEVER I felt led of the Spirit to go to church...so I do..If I didn't it would be sin..The Spirit always confirms his word with THE WORD...

[IL_ray_phillips]

Originally Posted by SFC Retired

Paul is not my God as you say, but:

Ephesians 3:2 (King James Version)

2If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
In Exodus chapter 3, up on Mount Sinai, God, spoke to Moses, and gave to him the Law, and then Moses takes the Law down the mountain and dispenses it to the Nation of Israel. So this was the dispensation of Law, and that’s the way I look at it in Scriptures. Now some 1500 years later after the Damascus Road experience for Paul, the same God does something different, which is His prerogative, because He’s Sovereign. Now He calls out to Mount Sinai, a different man whom we know as the apostle Paul. And to Paul God reveals these doctrines of Grace, and Paul in turn dispenses these doctrines of Grace, not so much to the Nation of Israel, but to the Gentile world.
So you say I make too much of Paul. No. Paul knew only one thing, and that was "Christ crucified for our sins, and risen from the dead," and you can’t find that anywhere else in Scripture that you are to believe that for salvation except in Paul’s writings. So I don’t elevate Paul above that. But you see God, as He kept things secret has decided that it’s through this man that He would reveal the things that had been kept secret. That’s why Paul, over and over, uses the term "revelation," how God revealed to me such and such, and he writes over and over again.

All of our doctrine for today is found in Paul’s letters.

II Corinthians 11:5
"For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles."

Wow! What does that say? I was not a half of step behind Peter.
II Corinthians 11:22-23a
"Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I. 23. Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more:..."

See how plain that is? That’s the Holy Spirit writing through the pen of the apostle Paul, that Paul is more the minister of Christ than anybody back there at Jerusalem. And this is what we have to understand.

And just how do you think Paul received his knowledge and dispensation?

Gal 1:12 KJV - For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Gal 1:13 KJV - For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
Gal 1:14 KJV - And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
Gal 1:15 KJV - But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called [me] by his grace,
Gal 1:16 KJV - To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Gal 1:17 KJV - Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Gal 1:18 KJV - Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
Gal 1:19 KJV - But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

Here is Paul quoting Old testement! Yes he calls the old testement the gospel. And yes there is a synounym of obey and believe!! That is how Paul had Jesus revealed unto him! He went and spent 3 years in the scripture! The only scripture he had was the prophets and the law!!! Faith come by hearing the Word of God. All of it!!!!!

Rom 10:16 KJV - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 KJV - So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

[IL_ray_phillips]

Originally Posted by Chuck7

I beleive the new Testament gentile Christian is under the law of the Spirit..there are no set laws except loving God and your neighbor as yourself..

The law of the Spirit is the law of faith...when The Spirit tells me to do something..and I disobey..it's a sin..If he tells me to slow down and I don't it's a sin..and my joy and peace is gone..and my faith is diminshed.

However; if I obey..my spiritual senses get more acute to His voice..and their is joy and peace in my heart..

Only Spirit filled Christians can be under the law of the Spirit..I'm referring to Romans 8 here..the rest are under the law of sin and death,,.

The man or women who truly loves God is under the law of the Spirit..also see John 3:3 like the wind..The Christian doesn't see the Spirit but you know that you know..

As far as keeping the 10 commandments..a Spirti filled loving Christian would be keeping them automatically..except for the Keeping of the Sabbath..and Col. tells us not to judge anyone for not keeping the Sabbath or New moons..Most gentiles go to church on the Lord's Day..Sunday...

Example of law of the SPirit...I don't see why I can't listen to a good preacher on the internet..HOWEVER I felt led of the Spirit to go to church...so I do..If I didn't it would be sin..The Spirit always confirms his word with THE WORD...

The law makes us conscience of sin. Whether you are spirit filled(died to the flesh and born again) and walking by grace(the power of God) or walking in the lust of the flesh(living a sinful life) and violating the law it will be in effect until Christ comes. Christ died to give us grace. This grace is the power from God to keep us from sinning. Not I but Christ within me! This is what Christ meant when he said think not that I come to abolish the law but I come to fulfill it. He come to make a way possible to purify us and empower us to keep the law. Even if its the one inside us that is a law unto ourselves. Once again not I but Christ within me!

[SFC Retired]

And just how do you think Paul received his knowledge and dispensation?

That is what I have been saying all along. He received it from the LORD on this side of the cross. FROM THE RISEN LORD.