Work?

[Snooky]

So, taken in context for what the Sabbath is according to the Bible, we are only commanded to observe 9 of the 10 as Christians--at least as I read it.


Since I believe the Bible to be the true and inspired Word of God, I accept it as the standard. If what someone tells me conflicts with the written Word, I will take the Word every time. 'Course that's just the way I see it--I can only speak for myself, and nobody else can speak for me.


In light of this statement of faith, which IMO sets forth the views of most modern christians concerning the Law and Salvation, relative to Calvary and Christ's sacrifice for the sins of the world, allow me to question if it is in fact scriptural.
Definitions of the word work, (english, not greek, hebrew, arabic, ect.) include 1. effort in doing, or making something. 2. Something to do, occupation or employment. 3. Something made or done; result of effort. 4. That upon which effort is put. 5. physics A. transferance of energy from one body or system to another. B. that which is accomplished by a force when it acts through a distance. 6. fortification.
Jesus cried, "It is finished"--What was finished? The removal of the 4th command only? What about the other 90% of the law?
Taking away the handwritting of ordinances which was against us only refered to the doing away with the 4th commandment?
When Jesus declared that man should live by every word that proccedeth out of the mouth of God, he really meant live by 90% of Gods words??
What was meant in James when it reads, "He that keepeth the whole law, and offends in one part, he is guilty of all? Who determines what portion of the law one must keep, and what portion he must not keep? Must we do something? Or must we do nothing at all?

[IL_ray_phillips]

We keep all 10 commandments! When he said it was finished he was simply saying that he had created a way for us to be born again and cleanse our inner man where the law on stone could not!

1Jo 3:4 KJV - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jo 3:5 KJV - And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Mat 5:17 KJV - Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 KJV - For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 KJV - Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus didnt come to take away one commandment! He died so you could become empowered by the grace or power of God to stand against your temptations and keep the commandments or fullfill the law through him. If you break one of the least ones you are sinning for sin is transgression of the law. Heaven and earth are still here so its still all in effect!

Hbr 9:9 NIV - This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper.
Hbr 9:10 NIV - They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings-external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

The Works of the Law or the gifts, sacrifices, various ceremonial washings were only external regulations. They only cleaned the outside of a man. That is why Jesus called the pharisees whitewashed tombs. They could only clean the outside by the Works of the law! The works of the law have been done away with! Not the good works through Christ that can give you reward in heaven! The works were only in effect until the new order. When did the new order become effective. At the death of Christ.

Hbr 9:11 NIV - When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation.
Hbr 9:12 NIV - He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.
Hbr 9:13 NIV - The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.
Hbr 9:14 NIV - How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!
Hbr 9:15 NIV - For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance-now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

First Paul calls the the Law good! Jesus came as a high priest to mediate for us just as the priest in the earthly temple! He sacrificed himself who was perfect so we can be set free by his grace or power from the acts that lead to death or sin. The wages of sin are still death! We must be set free from our sins to serve the living God. For if you are sinning God will have nothing to do with you. That is why you must be born again or born of God. If you are born of God you have quit sinning!

Rom 8:1 NIV - Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

Because you keep the law by the Grace or power of God! Empowered by the Spirit!

Rom 8:2 NIV - because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 NIV - For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man,
Rom 8:4 NIV - in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Jesus Christ is the law of the spirit! His spirit will empower you to keep the law where the law written on stone could not! He came as a man just as you and I and was found perfect. He become our offering for forgiveness of sin but for the man who lives accourding to the Spirit. Living in sin and living in the spirit both does not happen! Be honest with yourself it is clearly stated all through the Word of God! Stop lying to yourselves!

Rom 8:5 NIV - Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.

Rom 8:6 NIV - The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace;

Rom 8:7 NIV - the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.

If you cannot stop sinning read this again and then read the next scripture!

Rom 8:8 NIV - Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 NIV - You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Rom 8:10 NIV - But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 NIV - And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
Rom 8:12 NIV - Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation-but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it.
Rom 8:13 NIV - For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,
Rom 8:14 NIV - because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.


There is a requirnment to be called a son of God and a brother of Christ! You have to be led by the spirit. If you live in the sinful or fleshly nature then you dont belong to God. If you live by the spirit you will put to death the misdeeds of the body or flesh. SIN! What is sin? Trangression of the law! So we keep all of it and if you break one of the least you are in sin!

Hbr 4:1 NIV - Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.
Hbr 4:2 NIV - For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith.

The sabbath still stands! We have the same Gospel preached to us and those prior to Christ! They hardend their hearts and it was of no value to them because they didnt combine it with faith or obedience. Faith is being obedient! It is used synounmusly all through the Word we just have hardend hearts and dont see it!

Hbr 4:3 NIV - Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, "So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.' " And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world.
Hbr 4:4 NIV - For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: "And on the seventh day God rested from all his work."
Hbr 4:5 NIV - And again in the passage above he says, "They shall never enter my rest."
Hbr 4:6 NIV - It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience.

They didnt combine it with faith or obedience!

Hbr 4:7 NIV - Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."

How do you harden your hearts? By being satified with living in sin and using the word of God to justifiy it!

Hbr 4:8 NIV - For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.
Hbr 4:9 NIV - There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
Hbr 4:10 NIV - for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his.
Hbr 4:11 NIV - Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

They were not faithful to God they didnt have faith! They were a disobedient people! The sabbath still stands as a commandment!

[cataway]

Very clearly the Scriptures state that God through Christ made an end to the Law. (Eph. 2:14-18; Col. 2:13, 14) Some persons claim that God made an end only to the so-called ceremonial law, but not to the Decalogue. But there is no Scriptural warrant for such a separation. In his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus quoted from both the Decalogue and the ceremonial features of the Law and made no distinction between them.—Matt. 5:21-42.
In further support of this, note the inspired words appearing at Romans 7:4-12. There we read that Christians “were made dead to the Law through the body of the Christ,” and, as a result, they “have been discharged from the Law.” From what Law? From only the so-called ceremonial law? Not at all, for the inspired writer goes on to quote from the Decalogue, “You must not covet,” showing that by “Law” he meant not only the so-called ceremonial law, but the entire law given through Moses, including the Ten Commandments.

[LBR]

Keep on a-castin' Snooky. This fish ain't bitin'.

Hope ya'll have a Merry Christmas.

[IL_ray_phillips]

Originally Posted by cataway

Very clearly the Scriptures state that God through Christ made an end to the Law. (Eph. 2:14-18; Col. 2:13, 14) Some persons claim that God made an end only to the so-called ceremonial law, but not to the Decalogue. But there is no Scriptural warrant for such a separation. In his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus quoted from both the Decalogue and the ceremonial features of the Law and made no distinction between them.—Matt. 5:21-42.

In further support of this, note the inspired words appearing at Romans 7:4-12. There we read that Christians “were made dead to the Law through the body of the Christ,” and, as a result, they “have been discharged from the Law.” From what Law? From only the so-called ceremonial law? Not at all, for the inspired writer goes on to quote from the Decalogue, “You must not covet,” showing that by “Law” he meant not only the so-called ceremonial law, but the entire law given through Moses, including the Ten Commandments.

I dont know who the author of this is but they do not understand the Word of God!

The 10 commandments stand until the end. They make us conscience of sin. When we die to the flesh and start walking accourding to the spirit, Jesus Christ sets us free from the commandments by empowering to keep them when we are weak. We dont do it Jesus does. Not I but Christ within me!
If you are walking in the spirit you are walking in the truth of Gods Word! Being obedient to God's commands. Most people cant even give a biblical definition of the spirit let alone have it inside them!

Rom 7:9 KJV - For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 KJV - And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.
Rom 7:11 KJV - For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].
Rom 7:12 KJV - Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Guess the author missed this part of Romans that he quoted. You are always going to have temptation. When that tempation comes you know it because you know the thou shall nots! When that temptation comes you die with Christ and allow him to empower you to overcome it. So the law is good by making you aware of sin!

[cataway]

Throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures the law of Moses is contrasted with the “grace” or undeserved kindness that came in with Jesus Christ. Thus we read that “the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17, Authorized Version) Yes, “Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness.” By “end” is not meant merely the goal of the Law but its finish. Christians are therefore counseled: “Sin must not be master over you, seeing that you are not under law but under undeserved kindness.”—Rom. 10:4; 6:14.
The Law served its purpose, preparing the Israelites for their Messiah, even as we read: “The Law has become our tutor leading to Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith. But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor.” (Gal. 3:24, 25) For whom was the Law a tutor? Only for the Jews. Thus when Paul preached to non-Jews in Athens, some of them became believers, Christians, although they had never been under the Mosaic law as a tutor.—Acts 17:22-34.

[cataway]

, since Christians are not under the Ten Commandments, they are free to do whatever they please? Not at all. “You were, of course, called for freedom, brothers; only do not use this freedom as an inducement for the flesh, but through love slave for one another. For the entire Law stands fulfilled in one saying, namely: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’” (Gal. 5:13, 14) If Christians had been relieved only from the so-called ceremonial law, such a freedom would not constitute an inducement to the flesh. But clearly the argument is that just because they are no longer under the Mosaic law, including its Ten Commandments, they are not free to act with disregard for others, for they are still obligated by the law of love.

[IL_ray_phillips]

Originally Posted by cataway

Throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures the law of Moses is contrasted with the “grace” or undeserved kindness that came in with Jesus Christ. Thus we read that “the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17, Authorized Version) Yes, “Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness.” By “end” is not meant merely the goal of the Law but its finish. Christians are therefore counseled: “Sin must not be master over you, seeing that you are not under law but under undeserved kindness.”—Rom. 10:4; 6:14.

The Law served its purpose, preparing the Israelites for their Messiah, even as we read: “The Law has become our tutor leading to Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith. But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor.” (Gal. 3:24, 25) For whom was the Law a tutor? Only for the Jews. Thus when Paul preached to non-Jews in Athens, some of them became believers, Christians, although they had never been under the Mosaic law as a tutor.—Acts 17:22-34.

The ole undeserved kindness theory eh! That is the biggest lie and blasphemy since the picking of the apple! If that is what grace is then the church is set! They dont have to fear God and can just climb into heaven how ever they want!

Grace is God's omnipotent power! It gives us strength when we are weak and we start recieving when Jesus Christ is revealed unto us. They more flesh we crucify in obedience to the Word the more grace we get! The English scholars didnt have a clue how to translate charin from the greek so they called it a gift. It sure didnt fit the calvinist theory of instant salvation being power. They didnt even get the tense of the word right! They use is as a femine noun. If you take the verb of charin which show action the word is charisma! If a person has charisma they are full of energy and power! Here is 3 scripture where grace and power are used synounmsly!

#1
2Cr 12:9 KJV - And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Cr 12:10 KJV - Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Here it plainly is 12:9! Out of Jesus own mouth! He says my grace and then he calls his grace strength. Than Paul calls it the power of Christ! Then in 12:10 his says when he is weak grace makes him strong. That has nothing to do with I dont deserve this favor to be forgiven of my sins that I just committed and I am probably going to do it again because im stuck in sin until the end! It provides a way to overcome your sin.

Jesus was full of Grace. The omnipotent power of God. He used it to resist the devil for 40 days using it!

Jhn 1:14 KJV - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

#2
Eph 3:7 KJV - Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

#3
Act 4:33 KJV - And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

We get grace when Christ is revealed unto us!

1Pe 1:13 KJV - Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Here the author of the king Jimmy goes with the agenda of instant salvation. He gets something very wrong. Young get its right in his version!

1Pe 1:13 YNG - Wherefore having girded up the loins of your mind, being sober, hope perfectly upon the grace that is being brought to you in the revelation of Jesus Christ,

When is Christ revealed unto us?

Jhn 14:21 KJV - He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

If we have his commands and obey them we love Jesus and God! Which by the way if we are walking in love we are walking in obedience to God's commands. Then Jesus will show himself unto us! Then we start receiving grace!

How is grace used?

Hbr 4:16 NIV - Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

Are we approaching God's throne of undeserved kindness or is his throne power. His grace is for empowerment in a time of need!

1Cr 10:13 NIV - No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

Grace!

Psa 18:30 NIV - As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the Lord is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him.
Psa 18:31 NIV - For who is God besides the Lord? And who is the Rock except our God?
Psa 18:32 NIV - It is God who arms me with strength and makes my way perfect.

Grace!

2Pe 1:2 NIV - Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
2Pe 1:3 NIV - His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
2Pe 1:4 NIV - Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Grace his omnipotent power to escape the sins of this world by knowing him! Here is another little overlooked thing that you have never been told in church. If you know God what do you have?

Jhn 17:3 KJV - And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

More grace!
1Pe 1:5 NIV - who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Grace!

2Cr 10:4 NIV - The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.
2Cr 10:5 NIV - We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Grace!

Eph 1:19 NIV - and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength,

Grace!

Eph 3:7 NIV - I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God's grace given me through the working of his power.

Grace!

Col 1:11 NIV - being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, and joyfully

Grace!

Its everywhere!

[Snooky]

Grace is God's omnipotent power! It gives us strength when we are weak and we start recieving when Jesus Christ is revealed unto us. They more flesh we crucify in obedience to the Word the more grace we get! The English scholars didnt have a clue how to translate charin from the greek so they called it a gift. It sure didnt fit the calvinist theory of instant salvation being power. They didnt even get the tense of the word right! They use is as a femine noun. If you take the verb of charin which show action the word is charisma! If a person has charisma they are full of energy and power! Here is 3 scripture where grace and power are used synounmsly!

Ray; Thanks for all the scripture you present. It's amazing how many swear that they except, believe, and practice the scripture teachings, yet they have no answer to your scriptures, neither do they show any inclination find the answers. They don't know why thier doctrine is correct, but will not admit the posibility of ever being wrong.

IMO One doesn't get grace by obedience, but rather activates the gift of Grace by obedient faith. One can have 800 HP under the hood, but unless the key is inserted and the switch turned on, he want get very far, so is grace and faith.

It is written, "You shall receive POWER after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you". I am told that the word power is translated from the word "dynamikos", from which we get "dynamite". After The Holy Ghost is come, one receives a dynamic, explosive power beyond the ability of the carnal man, hence "You are more than conquers through him".

[IL_ray_phillips]

Originally Posted by Snooky

Grace is God's omnipotent power! It gives us strength when we are weak and we start recieving when Jesus Christ is revealed unto us. They more flesh we crucify in obedience to the Word the more grace we get! The English scholars didnt have a clue how to translate charin from the greek so they called it a gift. It sure didnt fit the calvinist theory of instant salvation being power. They didnt even get the tense of the word right! They use is as a femine noun. If you take the verb of charin which show action the word is charisma! If a person has charisma they are full of energy and power! Here is 3 scripture where grace and power are used synounmsly!

Ray; Thanks for all the scripture you present. It's amazing how many swear that they except, believe, and practice the scripture teachings, yet they have no answer to your scriptures, neither do they show any inclination find the answers. They don't know why thier doctrine is correct, but will not admit the posibility of ever being wrong.

IMO One doesn't get grace by obedience, but rather activates the gift of Grace by obedient faith. One can have 800 HP under the hood, but unless the key is inserted and the switch turned on, he want get very far, so is grace and faith.

It is written, "You shall receive POWER after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you". I am told that the word power is translated from the word "dynamikos", from which we get "dynamite". After The Holy Ghost is come, one receives a dynamic, explosive power beyond the ability of the carnal man, hence "You are more than conquers through him".

And what is the Holy Ghost that empowers you snooky?