Mr. C, those are my thoughts pretty much exactly. Just because a preacher or teacher is a member of the Church doesn't mean I automatically agree (and it's not unusual for me to disagree), and just because someone of a different denomination says something doesn't mean I automatically disagree. I bet we could have a good, long discussion and shake hands before we parted.
Chad
__________________ If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?
So, I ask again--do you honor Saturdays and keep them holy?
Do you participate in stoning disobedient children?
Do you believe that there are multiple offenses other than murder that should automatically recieve capital punishment?
Do you believe Christ failed in His mission to fulfil the Law?
How about Galatians 5:4? "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."
Serious questions.
This is very difficult to explain but I will do my best. This underlined sums it up. There are 2 laws at work! The law of God and the law of Grace. They work hand in hand! So yes if you do not keep the sabbath holy you sin! We keep the law of God which is the 10 commandments! The law of Moses which includes the ordinances and works do not apply. I explained this in my post. No Christ did not fail his mission. I see him giving many people strength every day to be delivered or find salvation from their sins. You dont keep the law yourself! If you are born again the spirit of God inside you does! That is the law of Grace!
How about Gal 5:4? To understand that you have to know what the law is used for! What is that? Here! Romans 7 A very misunderstood chapter in the Word!
But first we must remember this scripture.
Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Remember the laws in their mind you will see it below in romans 7! God placed the ten commandments inside you!
Rom 7:1¶Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
The law has dominion over you as long as you live! Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband.
If you die then you are released from the law Rom 7:3 So then if, while [her] husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
The 2 laws working together! The law of God and Grace! You die to one to have the other. Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Though you are alive in this world and under the law of God which makes you conscience of sin, we are to die to the Law by letting Christ strenghen us to overcome the sin by Grace! Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
When we walk in sin it will bring fourth death. The wages of sin are still death! Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.
God keeps the law in you! Rom 7:7¶What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. If we dont have the law we dont know what sin is! Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.
By knowing the law and knowing what sin is it produced all kinds of sinful thoughts! Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Here is a big one that gets distorted! A sin comes to his mind and he is aware its sin from the commandments. Then he says this, "and I died." He died to the law of God and give it to grace! Jesus strengthend him to overcome! Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.
The law which was created to bring life caused him to recognise the sin and he died in Christ! Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].
The sinful thought come in because he is conscience of the law. He didnt fall to the sin it caused him to die in Christ! Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
The law is holy and just and good! It has its purpose. It makes you conscience of what sin is! Rom 7:13¶Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Here is NIV's take. It is perfect!
Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
You are held even more accountable for you sins under the law of Grace! You no longer have an excuse! Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Sorry you live in this world and sin is here until the new heaven and earth. Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
It is a battle! You have the law of God inside and if you are not born again you will fall over and over and over to the same things. You hate it and want to stop but you cant! Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
If you fall to a sin the Law will make you conscience of it and that means the Law is doing its job! Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
You are a slave to what ever masters you. Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
If you walk accourding to the flesh you will produce fruit unto death and will not be able to bear good fruit. A tree and its fruits!
__________________
Elm River Hunt Club
Wayne County Illinois
www.illinoisdeerhunters.com
Last edited by IL_ray_phillips; 07-24-2010 at 10:11 PM.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Even though you know that you are doing wrong you will continue. Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
If you are doing it and cant control it then sin is controlling you not God! Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
You want to do good because God put his law inside you. But there is sin there! Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
You know that keeping Gods commands is good! Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
But the law of Grace battles against the sin. He takes the thoughts captive and Jesus strengthens him. Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
He has this major battle going on constantly. Sin coming into his mind. Death at his door! Who sets him free from it! Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
He thanks God that he sent Jesus to die so he could be delivered from the sins that attack him! So in his mind he has the commands making him conscience of sin giving sin the opportunity and in his flesh he uses Grace to be delivered! AMEN
__________________
Elm River Hunt Club
Wayne County Illinois
www.illinoisdeerhunters.com
Last edited by IL_ray_phillips; 07-24-2010 at 10:02 PM.
The law of Moses which includes the ordinances and works do not apply.
Yet Christ said "not one jot or tittle" shall pass until all is fulfilled. We don't observe the ordinaces of the law. We don't practice and eye for an eye--Christ refuted that aspect Himself. Either we are under the law or we are not. We don't have the luxury of choosing what parts we want to observe and what parts to ignore.
I believe Christ did just what He said--He fulfilled the Law, Hebrews 1 is clear.
__________________ If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?
Ray, It is amazing how close we have become in our insight into God's doctrine. Hundreds of miles apart, never even so much as a phone conversation, or gospel tract exchanged. It's amazing what one will see when he count all that he knew before as dung, that he might know Christ. This is a classic example of the inability of the carnal mind to see and comprehend the things of the Spirit. Remember the old saying, 20x20 vision and walking around blind? The bible speaks of "the rest He hath blinded".
For one to think that the sabbath is a day set apart, is just more carnal knowledge warring against the Spirit of Truth, another vail before the eyes to hide the truth.
The sabbath was given for a rest. It was a type, a shadow, a figure of things to come, ect. but the fulness was, (and still is) Christ. We don't serve Jesus Christ one day a week, we serve him every day equally as he is Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus didn't destroy a day! He made every day a holy day.
Jesus said, "Come unto me AND I will give you REST". One wasn't complete under Moses Law unless he observed the day. Jesus fulfilled that type, shadow, figure, ect. and now we are complete in him. Not complete in our own righteousness, (keeping of a certain day) but we are complete in HIM, in The Righteousness of God. That is what Paul said when he declared that "The righteousness of THE LAW, might be fulfilled in US. Did he say that the righteousness of the law was fulfilled in the Old Testament??? Never!! Paul said that it MIGHT be fulfilled in us who are in the New Testament!! Fulfilled in the old letter of the law, NO, we are not under the carnal, but in The Spirit, IF SO BE that the Spirit of Christ dwell in you.
Walk in The Spirit, and there is no carnal law binding the Spirit filled believer! He has been set free, (from the law of sin and death), and is free in deed. He rests each day in the crucified, (true sabbath).
Take my yoke upon you and learn of me, for I am meek and lowly and ye SHALL FIND REST unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
We are complete in him!! Need a passover, he is our lamb. Need a sin offering, Jesus is it. Hungry? Jesus is the manna from heaven. Thirsty? Jesus gives rivers of living water. Need a shepard, Jesus is the one. Need a King, Jesus is him. Need a shiels? need a bukler? Look no further, Jesus is there. Need a friend, Jesus sticketh closer than a brother. NEED A REST? Jesus is our Sabbath.
Beware lest ye be moved away from the simplicity of the Gospel.
Insults and claiming superior enlightenment won't bring anyone closer to God. Neither will building up fake straw men to tear down in an attempt to build yourself up.
The facts are clear, if you take the Bible for what it says.
Christ said not one jot or tittle will pass until all is fulfilled. Many aspects of the Law have passed, including the literal observance of the Sabbath day. That simple fact cannot be explained away no matter how many pages of insults and accusations are posted.
__________________ If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?
The facts are clear, if you take the Bible for what it says.
If I used anything except scripture, Please copy and paste it so all can see the error, and post the true reading of that scripture that we may all come to your revelation of the way.
I'm not trying to convince anyone to see it "my way", I'm simply explaining what I believe and why--and I get tired of being attacked, falsely accused, and having things I never said projected on me. This board is for discussion, not judging and preaching.
You constantly use your own interpretations and opinions, as does everyone else. You really need examples? Ok, here you go.
Quote:
For one to think that the sabbath is a day set apart, is just more carnal knowledge warring against the Spirit of Truth, another vail before the eyes to hide the truth.
That's not scripture, that is nothing more than Snooky's opinion/interpretation. According to the Law, the Sabbath was the 7th day of the week--Saturday--and the Law is very specific about what can and cannot be practiced on this day.
There's pages more, but I really don't think it would matter if I went back 5 years quoting them.
__________________ If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?
