Clearing things up

[Snooky]

Subject: ((This Should Clear Things Up Once And For All!))

The trinity teaches that God asked himself to go to earth to save mankind.

Then he agreed with himself and volunteered himself to himself to offer himself.Except he really didn't offer himself, just a human body.

Then God impregnated a woman as himself, with himself, to create the human body.

God prayed to himself and glorified himself repeatedly.

God strengthened himself and talked to himself.

After that, God forsook himself and sacrificed himself, or really just the human body, to prove his loyalty to himself.

While dead he resurrected himself, well really just the human body, so he could exalt himself above himself.

Then he sat at his own right hand and waited til he placed his enemies as a footstool.

Finally with Satan's forces defeated God would turn his kingdom over to himself.

That all things would become everything to himself.

No wonder people call the unscriptural pagan teaching of a triune godhead ha 'mystery'.



Amazing what we stumble accross on the web isn't it.
I don't know the source of this writting, but I suspect it has WatchTower connections.
I thought it was amusing to say the least. Enjoy.

[LBR]

That is a good example of what happens when someone assumes they know what someone else believes, or listens to a "teacher" or "preacher" that thinks they know what someone else believes, rather than simply asking that person what they believe (and listening when they explain it).

I've had it happen to me many times. "You are a member of THAT church--I know exactly what you think, what you teach, and what you believe--my preacher told me so! You can't tell me any differently!".

And that's how so many ridiculous beliefs and comments get started. It's plain and simple gossip--no more, no less. I think the Bible refers to it as "bearing tales", or something like that? Whatever it's called, it's plain wrong.

[DaveH]

Read the whole thing again and see if it doesn't pretty much say what the oneness doctrine preaches . . .

I've read it two or three times now and it really seems to me that oneness is teaching these viewpoints.

[LBR]

I've read it two or three times now and it really seems to me that oneness is teaching these viewpoints.

Where did you get your information on what "oneness" folks believe?

I can't help, because I don't believe in it, but I suggest you ask Snooky or someone else who beleives it what they think, and where this article is in error (if it is).

That's a big peeve with me--moreso when it concerns me and my beliefs, but over-all as well.

If you want to know what someone believes, just ask them. Don't depend on someone else to tell you what another individual believes.

I can say from experience that, unless you get it straight from the horse's mouth, it's usually not accurate. I've been judged time and time again, and it's almost always over something I never have and never will believe; and even when I've gone to great pains to explain where they are wrong they still take what they have been told by someone else over what I said. Go figure.

[Kosherboy]

[quote=Snooky;3649974]Subject: ((This Should Clear Things Up Once And For All!))

The trinity teaches that God asked himself to go to earth to save mankind.

Then he agreed with himself and volunteered himself to himself to offer himself.Except he really didn't offer himself, just a human body.

Then God impregnated a woman as himself, with himself, to create the human body.

God prayed to himself and glorified himself repeatedly.

God strengthened himself and talked to himself.

After that, God forsook himself and sacrificed himself, or really just the human body, to prove his loyalty to himself.

While dead he resurrected himself, well really just the human body, so he could exalt himself above himself.

Then he sat at his own right hand and waited til he placed his enemies as a footstool.

Finally with Satan's forces defeated God would turn his kingdom over to himself.

That all things would become everything to himself.

No wonder people call the unscriptural pagan teaching of a triune godhead ha 'mystery'.



God’s Passion For His Glory
Isaiah 42:1-9

Reverend Bryn MacPhail / December 1, 2002

I agree with Jonathan Edwards, who asserts that, 'It is manifest from Scripture, that God's glory is the last end of . . . the work of redemption by Jesus Christ'(The Works Of Jonathan Edwards, volume 1, 110).

Charles Spurgeon says much the same when he writes, ‘The great end of God in Christ was the manifestation of his own glorious attributes.’ In other words, God's ultimate end for sending His Son to earth was to glorify Himself .

God’s passion for His own glory is precisely what we find in Isaiah, chapter 42. The chapter begins by providing us with the job description of the promised Messiah and, in verse 8, we are given God’s purpose statement, “I am the Lord, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, nor My praise to graven images.” It is in this verse that we learn that God’s purpose for sending His Son is intimately related to His concern for His glory.

This assertion should not come as news to us. As Christians, we believe and confess that God is holy and righteous. Being perfectly holy and righteous, it then logically follows that God would delight in that which is holy and righteous. And, necessarily, because God is perfect in holiness, He must delight in Himself above all things.

If it were possible for God to delight in anything more than Himself, then that thing would be worthy of our worship. But of course, there is nothing that fits this description. And so for good reason, the first of the ten commandments reads: "You shall have no other gods before Me"(Ex. 20:3).

The plain truth of Scripture is that God is relentlessly self-exalting. The Bible commands that we praise and adore Him. The God of the Bible cares immensely about His reputation, His righteousness, and His glory, and He opposes those who belittle it. You can scarcely find a page of the Bible without seeing God excited about God. This is precisely what we find in Isaiah, chapter 42.

As you might expect, the latter part of chapter 41 provides context for chapter 42, telling us about what displeases, and angers, the Lord. And so, by way of contrast, chapter 42 introduces us to what “delights” the Lord.

We read in verse 1 that it is God’s Servant, the Messiah, that "delights" the Lord. God is excited about His Servant because His "Spirit" is "upon Him".

And what will be accomplished by the Lord's Servant? The one word answer is justice. Verse 1, "He will bring forth justice to the nations"; verse 3, "He will faithfully bring forth justice"; verse 4, "He will not grow faint or be crushed until He has established justice in the earth; and the coastlands wait for His teaching".

Now I recognize that when we hear the word justice, each of us probably imagines something slightly different. What kind of justice was the Messiah to usher in? Our clue to understanding this particular Hebrew word, mispat (justice), comes from the parallel in verse 4 between "justice" and "teaching"(Motyer, Isaiah, 259).

The word mispat occurs nearly 30 times in Psalm 119(i.e. v.7, 13, 20) and nearly 20 times in Deuteronomy(i.e. 4:1, 5:1) translated, not as "justice", but as "(God's) ordinances". Mispat then, is perhaps better described here as God’s righteous standard.

Now plug ‘God’s righteous standard’ back into Isaiah 42. "He will bring forth God’s righteous standard to the nations . . . He will faithfully bring forth God’s righteous standard. . . He will not grow faint or be crushed until He has established God’s righteous standard on the earth; and the coastlands wait for His teaching"(v.1-4).

When we talk about ‘the objective content of the gospel’, this is what we mean. We are asserting that Jesus both incarnated, and delivered, this righteous standard to others. And this righteous standard was not intended merely as an example for us, but as our representation. We needed the Son of God to come to earth because we had put ourselves in a dreadful situation. Instead of living according to God’s righteous standard, we exchanged that standard for one of our own making.

And so the Lord warns us in Isaiah 42, verse 8, "I am the Lord, that is My name; My glory I give to no other, nor My praise to idols".

The Lord’s people had abandoned the righteous standard of the law. The Lord’s people had begun to attach disproportionate honour and value to things other than God. And because God is unwilling to give His glory to another, He set out to reestablish His righteous standard through the Incarnation of His Son.

And, while it is true that we benefit from this Incarnation in many ways, we must confess that our benefits do not represent the ultimate aim Christ’s mission. The ultimate end of Christ coming to earth was to glorify the Father.

Jesus affirms this purpose on numerous occasions, but let me point you to a few of them. In John, chapter 7, verse 18, Jesus asserts that He came to earth, "seeking the glory of the One who sent Him".

In John 12, verse 28, Jesus prays, "Father, glorify Thy name". To that, the Heavenly Father answers, "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again". And, in what is called 'The High Priestly Prayer' of John 17, Jesus prays, "I have glorified Thee on earth, having accomplished the work which Thou hast given Me to do"(17:4).

There is no debating the Jesus accomplished a great deal through His birth, life, death, and resurrection, but what we must not lose site of is His ultimate purpose for accomplishing these things. Jesus came to earth "seeking the glory of the One who sent Him".

Our self-centred nature, I suspect, has trouble comprehending that salvation is not all about us—it is, first and foremost, about God. Salvation is about God and the demonstration of His glory. This is not some new concept, it is a truth that is affirmed throughout Scripture. In Psalm 79, verse 9, the psalmist prays, "Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of Thy name; And deliver us, and forgive our sins, for Thy name's sake". "I am the Lord, that is My name; My glory I give to no other", says the Lord(Isa. 42:8).

And did you know that God's concern for His own glory is our good news? This is an amazing truth. When human beings act in a self-centred fashion it is almost always to the detriment of someone else. This is not the case with God. God's passion for His glory, rather than opposing love, is the foundation of it. God has chosen to manifest His glory by showering grace upon undeserving sinners. God has chosen to glorify Himself by giving, to undeserving sinners, the unblemished righteousness of Jesus Christ.

What is unfortunate about this time of year, is how all of the wrong things are glorified. This is the time of year when commercialism and materialism are glorified. It is the time of year where family members and family dinners are glorified. It is the time of year when even singing certain hymns and lighting certain candles becomes glorified.

It is easy to say our Lord is not glorified by the way our society celebrates Christmas—that is too easy a target—I think we can look a little closer than that. I suspect that the way Christians approach Christmas often fails to properly glorify our Father in heaven.

When Jesus was born, angels sang, "Glory to God in the highest heaven"(Lk. 2:14) and, shortly before His death, Jesus prayed, "Father, glorify Thy name".

From His birth to His death, God's purpose remained the same—the manifestation of His glory.

God's concern for His glory is our saving grace. And if God is concerned about His glory above all else, shall we not share this concern?

[Kosherboy]

Isaiah 42:8 I am Jehovah, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images.
Isaiah 48:11 For My own sake, for My own sake, I will do it; For how should My name be profaned? And I will not give My glory to another.
Note: God does not share His glory with anyone.

[Chuck7]

Here's an interesting verse I read yesterday in my quiet time..

Actually let's look at in context but zero in on verse 7..

Psalm 45:1 My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.

2Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.
3Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.
4And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
5Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.
6Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

[cataway]

Originally Posted by Chuck7

Here's an interesting verse I read yesterday in my quiet time..

Actually let's look at in context but zero in on verse 7..

Psalm 45:1 My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.

2Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.
3Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.
4And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.
5Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.
6Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

you may recall jesus said ''
17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God''

[Snooky]

My point wasn't to start a discussion of the Godhead, I just found it an amusing article. I saw a poor fellow, like myself, who doesn't know if he is washing, or hanging out to dry.
As far as what Snooky believes, I have posted it many times, if I change those views, I will let you know, until then copy and paste all you like. I stand behind what I post. It is my responsability to explain myself clearly and clear up any mis=spoken statements, and answer when I'm questioned concerning my statements. So I will comment on the post, and give a quick reply to the writers statement, and state a breif glimpes of my personal view again.
Godhead speaks of the completeness, or fulness of God and his revealing himself unto his creation. These things were written that ye may KNOW that I am God, and there is none else. There are many views of The Godhead, Oneness is my excepted view, declares God Is a single deity, with multiple expressions of himself, but remaining a single diety.
The Binitarian Godhead portrays God as two (2) beings. The common Trinity doctrine presents three (3) dieties, often called "persons" in an attempt to visualise God in a human form or term.
Polythiesim is the teaching of a God or Godhead of more than one God, person, or being.
I see in this peice a writer who appears to me to be of the "Binitatian" persuasion, but thinks that he is really "Oneness". A big God with a smaller god, kind of like an errand boy for the larger, more powerful God. One mighty God, but two dieties. A Godhead with a chain of commands, a view seen in the Binitarians, Trinitarians, and all Polythiests.
My understanding reveals unto me that God is One, and his name one. IMO there is no 1st person who outranks or is superior to the second person. Neither is there a 3rd person inferior to the 1st and 2nd persons. Neither do I hold the or except the idea that there is a 1st person who is Almighty seperate from the 2nd person who also is Almighty. There is no 3rd seperate person or diety beside the other 2, who also is Almighty. How many Almighties have we?? Feel free to comment or question any, or all of this post. I will make another post and look at the writers comment about the Godhead.

[Snooky]

The trinity teaches that God asked himself to go to earth to save mankind.
God didn't ask any to go. God took upon himself the form of a servant. God was in Christ! that is scripture. God is a Spirit, also scripture. The scripture however didn't say that Christ was in God. It didn't sat that Jesus was in the Godhead, rather The Godhead was in Jesus.
Then he agreed with himself and volunteered himself to himself to offer himself.Except he really didn't offer himself, just a human body.
IMO, totally lacking any understanding of the blood sacrifice of the Lamb. Without the shedding of blood is no remission. I fail to see oneness, or trinity in his statement here.
Then God impregnated a woman as himself, with himself, to create the human body.
The Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary, and she concieved and brought forth a Son. I do agree with the statement "to create the human body". God is not a man, thats scripture. Eternal Son isn't written in the scripture, "begotten Son" is found often. We find the term "the Son of God", but where do we find it written "God The Son"?
God prayed to himself and glorified himself repeatedly.
Where does it say that God ever prayed?
God strengthened himself and talked to himself.
Again neither the Trinity or the Oneness claim that The Almighty could ever become strengthened? That would make one greater in power than The Almighty!
After that, God forsook himself and sacrificed himself, or really just the human body, to prove his loyalty to himself.
God killed God?? Who teaches that? God killed the human body? Neither view teaches such nonscience.
While dead he resurrected himself, well really just the human body, so he could exalt himself above himself.
God was never dead, the lamb was slain, but not God
Then he sat at his own right hand and waited til he placed his enemies as a footstool.
Draw a picture of God. Hand & feet? Feathers? Sword sticking out of his mouth. The Almighty sets in heaven waiting?
Finally with Satan's forces defeated God would turn his kingdom over to himself.
I bet you could have some interesting discussion about prophecy with this fellow, regardless of what you believe.

That all things would become everything to himself.
All things would become everything?
No wonder people call the unscriptural pagan teaching of a triune godhead ha 'mystery'.