Is Jesus' Coming Secret ?

[Kosherboy]

We have being led to believe that Christ's Coming will be a Secret and no one would noticed.
Usually the verse , "He Comes as A Thief in the night No one knows the day or the Hour" is used to back this theology.

But is that consistant with the rest of Scripture.

Additional Scripture Notes
Acts 1:9 Note the recurring words in this verse: beheld, sight, looked, gazing, seen.

Acts 1:9-11 Jesus went to heaven literally and visibly. The angels said He would return "in like manner as ye have seen him go" into heaven. How did Jesus go up? He went up visibly, with clouds.

Revelation 1:7 "Behold, He cometh with clouds." Isn't that just like Acts 1? Jesus went up to heaven with clouds, and here the Bible says He will return with clouds. The angels said "in like manner" and the book of Revelation agrees perfectly. How many will see Christ coming? Every eye, not only the righteous but the wicked as well. Why are the wicked wailing? Maybe they didn't think Jesus was real; or didn't think it mattered if they were ready or not, or didn't think He would come so soon. Then they realize they put it off until it was too late. They rejected God's offer of eternal life and now they see their great mistake. Look at it again in

Revelation 14:14-16 Again we have clouds, just as in Acts 1. Notice that when Jesus comes, it is to reap; He comes reaping a harvest; something is being gathered into barns. He comes to get His people.

I Thessalonians 4:16 This is "the word of the Lord." It says "the Lord himself" will come with a shout, voice, a trump. This is so loud the dead are being awakened. It doesn't sound secret at all.

II Thessalonians 4:17 "Then," when the shout, the voice, and the trump are all sounding, and the dead are rising, the living are caught up to meet Jesus in the clouds. Here the saints are gathered, caught up, at the time when Jesus is coming with clouds, at the time when everyone is hearing, everyone seeing. There is complete harmony with what we read in Acts and Revelation. According to what we read, Antichrist must come before the saints are gathered, before Jesus comes. Is that found anywhere else in the Bible?

II Thessalonians 2:1,2 Paul is discussing the second coming and the gathering, and he says that the day of Christ is not at hand in his (Paul's) day. There was confusion regarding the second coming and the gather­ing even then. Paul said no matter what communication the Thessalonian Christians received, the day of Christ was not at hand during their day. Why not? What was the reason?

II Thessalonians 2:3 The day of Christ's coming and the gathering of the saints was not to come until after there was a falling away and the man of sin was revealed, or made visible, that is until the man of sin would be seen. Paul warns the saints not to be deceived here; the man of sin would come first, then Christ would come and gather the saints. Jesus also warned that false ideas regarding His coming would come in.

Matthew 24:24-26 Be forewarned, Jesus said, If they say Jesus comes in the secret chambers, or in a secret way, don't believe it. Why not believe it? Because His coming is not going to be secret.
Matthew 24:27,28 It will be like lightning - we can see it, and thunder - we can hear it. Jesus also tells when the saints will be gath­ered.

Matthew 24:29,30,31 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days, ... and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." And (vs. 31) "He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." After the tribulation, Christ will appear, and then all the tribes will mourn, and then the angels will gather the saints. Notice there will be a great sound of a trum­pet, there will be angels, the wicked will be mourning, and all will see Jesus coming in the clouds with power and great glory. Is that secret? No. The saints will be gathered, but it will not be secretly!

[Snooky]

Amen and Amen!!Surely the Lord will do nothing but that he revealeth his secret unto his servants, the prophets.
True, he cometh as a thief in the night, BUT (please note) Jesus said, "ye are not children of darkness, but children of light". That day shall not come upon you unaware. They that sleep, sleep in the night!! Awake to righteousness, and walk in the light.
Great post KB.

[LBR]

Matthew 24: 2 and 3 "2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? "

Christ predicts the destruction of the temple (which happened long ago--I'll have to do more digging to get the historical data).

The disciples ask two distinct questions. 1. When will the temple be destroyed? 2. What will be a sign of Christ's return and the end of the world?

Concerning the first question--obviously about the destruction of the temple.

"16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: "

If it were the end of the world, what good would it do to flee to the mountains? Why would anyone go back to their home to retrieve anything, and why would it matter if they did? What would it matter if it were on the Sabbath, or if a woman was nursing? It wouldn't--IF Christ was describing His return and the end of the world. He is referring to an invasion that took place, and that resulted in the destruction of the temple.

Verse 34 is conclusive.

" 34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. "

Then Christ addresses the second question.

"36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. "

" 42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. "

"44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. "

Christ was very clear in stating that nobody knows when He will return. At least it's clear to me.

When He does return, it will not be secretly--I believe if we are still around there will be no doubt what is going on--but nobody has any idea when that day will be.

[Snooky]

Lets not forget the rest of the scriptures as they must all connect together properly before we can understand the whole of their teachings and revelations unto mankind. Jesus said "when you see all these things coming to pass" was he not acknowledging the fact that at that present time, he was speaking of a time still hidden, but a time which was to be revealed in the future? Did Jesus EVER say that no one would ever know these things? Dan 2:28 There is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets. Dan 2:22 He revealeth the deep and secret things. Dan 2:29 He maketh secrets known unto man. Know, comes the big question--did God mean what he said in Amos 3:7 ?? Surely The Lord God (who is this Lord God), will do NOTHING ( what does nothing mean), but he revealeth his SECRET unto his servants the prophets.
I have posed this question several times, but I don't recall it ever being adressed in the past, so I ask again. What was the lesson being taught as the day of Elijah's taking away approached? At what point in time did Elijah learn of the exact day that he was going away? Elisha also received a revelation of the very day of Elijah's catching away. Everywhere Elijah and Elisha went, the sons of the prophets also knew the very day it was to happen. It had been a secret that none of the knew just a short time prior, but NOW EVERYONE seemed to know what was happening.
When Daniel and the Hebrews were lead into captivity, did they know the secrets that were contained in the vision of the images? Did they know the dates and times that were revealed in the next 90 years? I think not, but what a difference a day makes!
As you started reading this post, what you have now read was then future, as you red, it became the present, know it is past history! AND I have not closed my post as of the present.
The past will always remain in history. The present will pass away in the blink of an eye. The future will then become the present. God bringeth it to PASS. The old song says, "time is filled with swift transition. nought of earth unmoved shall stand". Why is that a hard truth to understand? The words of God are not dead words, frozen in time, but they are alive forever more.
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my pathway. Gods word shineth more and more unto the coming of a perfect day.
The Jews are a powerful example of being frozen in time. Looking for the "red Heifer". For what reason?? Jesus has came, walked among them, allowed himself to become a lamb, shed the sinless blood, rose triumphant over death, hell, and the grave, is alive forever, and maketh intersecession in the heavenly sanctuary for our sins, that we may be like him. WE HAVE THE MIND OF CHRIST. Let this mind be in you!! Partarkers of his devine nature!! Members in the body of Christ. Heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.
I ask you, WILL Christ suddenly appear in the clouds and be totally unaware of what is going on around him? I think not. When the fulness of time is come, he will gather together his angels and declare "Lets roll", and the angel whose job it is to blow the trumpet, will raise it unto his lips, and the "Trump of God shall sound". As the lightening shineth from the East even unto the West, so shall the coming of The Son of Man be!
Watch and pray, that that day come not upon you unawares.

[Kosherboy]

Read the parable of the fig tree, Israel is the fig tree, so the events Jesus spoke of were to follow within One generation after him and it did, the temple was destroyed in 70 AD exactly 35-37 years after Christ's resurrection, after that the rest of the prophecies would not apply until the fig tree budded again, that was in 1948 when Israel returned to the land and in 1967 the end of the times of the ruling of gentiles was realized when Israel took Jerusalem back and in 1997 was made into the Capital of Israel, so since 1948 all gloves are off, Christ can return at any moment or second.
Those generations before 1948 that predicted the coming of Christ then were wrong for that fact the fig tree had not budded yet.

[SFC Retired]

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: "

If it were the end of the world, what good would it do to flee to the mountains? Why would anyone go back to their home to retrieve anything, and why would it matter if they did? What would it matter if it were on the Sabbath, or if a woman was nursing? It wouldn't--IF Christ was describing His return and the end of the world. He is referring to an invasion that took place, and that resulted in the destruction of the temple.

I think this "fleeing into the mountains" is at the mid point of the tribulaiton when the anti-christ defiles the temple.

These escaping jews will be protected by God.

[SFC Retired]

34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. "

Is jesus Christ not speaking in the future? This is happening during the tribulation, so that generation will not pass, because they will be seeing it happening.

[Kosherboy]

Originally Posted by SFC Retired

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: "

If it were the end of the world, what good would it do to flee to the mountains? Why would anyone go back to their home to retrieve anything, and why would it matter if they did? What would it matter if it were on the Sabbath, or if a woman was nursing? It wouldn't--IF Christ was describing His return and the end of the world. He is referring to an invasion that took place, and that resulted in the destruction of the temple.

I think this "fleeing into the mountains" is at the mid point of the tribulaiton when the anti-christ defiles the temple.

These escaping jews will be protected by God.

That fleeing to the mountains happened in 70 AD as Told by Josephus the Historian, many Messianic Jews ran into Jordan to The City of Stone known as Petra, from there many migrated to Morocco, Tunisia and Sapharda(Spain).
We must learn what is passed and what was foretold for the future.
This Israel which is the remnant left after the II world war and Hitler is the Israel that will see the Messiah set his feet upon the mount of Olives.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20682245/

Jesus' prophecies were two fold for his present and for the Future of today.

[SFC Retired]

Originally Posted by Kosherboy

That fleeing to the mountains happened in 70 AD as Told by Josephus the Historian, many Messianic Jews ran into Jordan to The City of Stone known as Petra, from there many migrated to Morocco, Tunisia and Sapharda(Spain).
We must learn what is passed and what was foretold for the future.
This Israel which is the remnant left after the II world war and Hitler is the Israel that will see the Messiah set his feet upon the mount of Olives.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20682245/

Jesus' prophecies were two fold for his present and for the Future of today.

NO, KB, it has not happened yet. Matthew 24 is all tribulation and we are not in the tribulation period.

[Snooky]

Sarge, There are yet prophecies to be fulfilled, But to give us an idea of where you are coming from, an historic lesson on the worlds powers, and the effects upon the churches of those times, the decrees, laws past, religeous involvement in world affairs, the rise of the papacy, the changing of Gods laws by governments, campaigns against discenters ect would be of great interest to me.