What is Grace?

[DaveH]

Snooky, once again, I agree with what you wrote. One little difference though is whether or not it's hard. The temptation to sin sometimes isn't hard to overcome since certain temptations affect people differently. I don't drink and have never had an alcohol problem, but I imagine a Christian who used to be an alcoholic might have a much more difficult time saying no to the temptation to drink. Lust is another one which, while probably much more common among men, still affects some far less than others. Having said that, I think that some temptations are very hard to overcome -- that's why they're a TEMPTATION. By definition, it's something you WANT to do -- sometimes VERY much. I think we all have weaknesses that are specific to us. God's grace doesn't give us the permission to give in to ANY sin, but at those times when we are overcome and give in to the temptor by sinning, it's good to know we have an advocate with the Father through our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Leafrivermac]

I wonder this . . .What sin is it that Christ won't deliver us from?Is there any fleshly yoke that He will not give us a way to escape from it? If not, then we are choosing sin?

[Snooky]

Walking in the light of Gods grace IS NOT HARD. Gods yoke is easy and his burden is light. It is the way of the transgressor that is hard! Gods saving Grace fills one with power to overcome.

Dave; You are correct in the fact that there is always some bumps in the road when living for God. The point is the ways of the transgressor is much harder. In Jesus we have everything to enable us to succeed. Without Jesus we are at the mercy of the wicked one who has no mercy. The scripture states that the suffering of this present life are not worth mentioning when compared to the glory that awaits.
What a comfort to be filled with the assurance that God will not allow his children to be tempted ABOVE that which we are able to bear, but will make, (create) a way for our excape.
This makes the scripture which ask the question, What shall seperate us from the love of God, so special. There is no worry about losing my salvation. I may willingly lay aside my crown, but no one can take it from me without my concent.
John said as long as one is born of God he should sin not. The devil cannot make a child of God do anything against his will. John then continues with this promise should one have a lapse, letting his resolve slip and commit sin, that the door to the Fathers house is still open if he only plead his case unto the advocate. He is promised to be just and to forgive us our sins.
A license to sin repetedly? NO, Jesus words to the woman caught in the very act was, Neither do I condemn thee, go and SIN NO MORE.
A study of The True Tabernacle in Heaven which God pitched and not man would do everyone well here. Mosed was commanded to build the Tabernacle in the wilderness after the pattern showed him in the wilderness. Moses build a working model of that True Tabernace. Jesus as our heavenly priest is performing the functions in the Heavenly which were foreshadowed in the earthly tabernacle and its priestly functions.The earthly blood sacrifice being weak, had to be repetedly offered, but the blood of Christ endureth forever and never needs to be spilled again, but to has to be applied after the sins have been committed, by the heavenly high priest who is ministering daily in heavens Tabernacle.
This is the new and living way, built upon better promises. The old said, the soul that sinneth shall surely die. The new says, come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden and I will give thee rest.
One doesn't know what has been left unto him, until the will is read. Most Christians have never read the will, and resist anyone who has taken the time to study it and learn what the inheritance consists of.

[DaveH]

I hope everyone understands that I am making no excuse for sin. Romans 6 is as plain to me as you can get. Romans 7 shows that we are still quite capable of sinning and still do the things we do not want to do. If anyone reading this thinks he exceeds Paul, then I suggest examining your own pride. I have stated repeatedly that we do NOT have a license to sin and I strive like the rest of you to live right in the center of God's Will.. I also quote 1 Cor. 10:13 to myself regularly to assure myself that I have the power to escape the temptations I face . . . DAILY. I guess I just don't measure up to some of you. I trusted in Christ many years ago as my ONLY way to Heaven and I believed that His blood shed on the cross washed me from my sins - nothing I had done or will do could ever pay for my sin. I read His word and pray to Him and try to raise my family that honors Him. We love the Lord and want to please Him and we witness to others, attend church every week, joined 2 small groups which meet together to pray together and study God's Will for our lives, and the list goes on. Yet, because I'm not PERFECT, some of you feel like there's no way I can ever be with my Lord in His Kingdom. I'm glad He is the judge and He paid the price. NONE of these works matters a hoot when it comes to whether or not I'm getting in.

[Snooky]

Dave; Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to argue with you, just using your post to bounce some things off of for the sake of others who would be following along with the discussion.

[IL_ray_phillips]

Originally Posted by DaveH

I hope everyone understands that I am making no excuse for sin. Romans 6 is as plain to me as you can get. Romans 7 shows that we are still quite capable of sinning and still do the things we do not want to do. If anyone reading this thinks he exceeds Paul, then I suggest examining your own pride. I have stated repeatedly that we do NOT have a license to sin and I strive like the rest of you to live right in the center of God's Will.. I also quote 1 Cor. 10:13 to myself regularly to assure myself that I have the power to escape the temptations I face . . . DAILY. I guess I just don't measure up to some of you. I trusted in Christ many years ago as my ONLY way to Heaven and I believed that His blood shed on the cross washed me from my sins - nothing I had done or will do could ever pay for my sin. I read His word and pray to Him and try to raise my family that honors Him. We love the Lord and want to please Him and we witness to others, attend church every week, joined 2 small groups which meet together to pray together and study God's Will for our lives, and the list goes on. Yet, because I'm not PERFECT, some of you feel like there's no way I can ever be with my Lord in His Kingdom. I'm glad He is the judge and He paid the price. NONE of these works matters a hoot when it comes to whether or not I'm getting in.

Never said you have to be perfect brother. I am not perfect but I am striving to be. If its God's will it will happen. But you do have to be born again and that requires putting aside your sins! A person who has overcome sins is not perfect. I stated this in a post. Perfect is the goal. We strive to reach it and run the good race. With man it is impossible but with God all things are possible.

[DaveH]

Never said you have to be perfect brother. I am not perfect but I am striving to be. If its God's will it will happen. But you do have to be born again and that requires putting aside your sins! A person who has overcome sins is not perfect. I stated this in a post. Perfect is the goal. We strive to reach it and run the good race. With man it is impossible but with God all things are possible.

This sounds a lot like what I've been saying. None of us are perfect. God's will IS for us to be perfect. Obviously, He wants us to live perfect sinless lives, but He also knows we fall short of that goal. As salvation, we are empowered with the Holy Spirit to overcome temptation, but that doesn't mean that we always meet the temptation and overcome it although that's the goal. Satan and his demons know where each of us is especially weak and vulnerable and the temptations will be more focused on those weak areas IMO. Kinda like football teams watching tape to find out the most vulnerable area of an opponent and then trying to exploit that. So, while we're doing our best to overcome sin, there will be times when the enemy wins. That's where we are especially thankful for God's grace and forgiveness when we confess our sin to him.

[Snooky]

This sounds a lot like what I've been saying. None of us are perfect. God's will IS for us to be perfect. Obviously, He wants us to live perfect sinless lives, but He also knows we fall short of that goal. As salvation, we are empowered with the Holy Spirit to overcome temptation, but that doesn't mean that we always meet the temptation and overcome it although that's the goal

We are so close here that we could be accused of nit-picking. The only contention that I have here at the moment is going back to Bro Mac's question. When one who has been saved, stumbles and commits a sin, is it a choice to commit the sin, or is one powerless to resist the temptation of sin?
You say, as I also do, that one is empowered with The Holy Spirit to overcome temptation. So does the wicked one overpower The Holy Spirit and force one into comitting the sin? I know that you believe that God is greater than anything that can come our way, so isn't sin the result of ones choice?

[IL_ray_phillips]

Originally Posted by DaveH

This sounds a lot like what I've been saying. None of us are perfect. God's will IS for us to be perfect. Obviously, He wants us to live perfect sinless lives, but He also knows we fall short of that goal. As salvation, we are empowered with the Holy Spirit to overcome temptation, but that doesn't mean that we always meet the temptation and overcome it although that's the goal. Satan and his demons know where each of us is especially weak and vulnerable and the temptations will be more focused on those weak areas IMO. Kinda like football teams watching tape to find out the most vulnerable area of an opponent and then trying to exploit that. So, while we're doing our best to overcome sin, there will be times when the enemy wins. That's where we are especially thankful for God's grace and forgiveness when we confess our sin to him.

Similar but much different. Its possible to be perfect(we dont have to be 2 be saved) and we must overcome our sins.(we must be to be saved) If we mess up along the way we do have an advocate who is patient and will forgive for the trespass. I dont read that we wont always meet the goal. I read:
1Cr 10:13No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.
Rom 6:12
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.
1Jo 5:18We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him.
1Jo 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1Jo 3:6
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
1Jo 3:5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.
Here is a very important scipture. There is a very big word here and it is "IF"! We have to walk in the light to have the blood of Jesus purify us from all sin. If we are going to be cleansed we have to be in the light! What is the light. The truth of the Word!
1Jo 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
Here is the attutide we should all have! This is talking about Moses! This was before Christ appeard and died! Moses was a sinner! He was a murderer! But he changed who he was and was obedient to God's every command! He was considered to have great faith and why? He was obedient! The Children of God will always be mistreated! Why does man say we are stuck in sin?The majority of man would rather enjoy sin for a short time than knowing Christ and getting a great reward that last forever!
Hbr 11:25He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a short time.
Hbr 11:26He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward.

[Chuck7]

"I am not perfect but I am striving to be."
I;;. Ray.

Ray,
this is what I have l been saying all along..and yet you have taken great pleasure in "openly rebuking me that others may fear." When preaching one must look at the entire book..not one verse isolated..