Becoming a Christian involves a process. Not something we instantly achieve. The trials and tribulations we endure are used to transform us from the fleshly man into the spiritual man he wants us to be! Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Do you see! It is a process of putting away your sins one at a time by the power given you through Jesus.(Grace) Only when we are putting away our sins are we a servant of God! The wages of sin is still death people! But we see what the gift of God is eternal life. What is eternal life? Here! Jhn 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Knowing God is eternal life! But we cant know God and his truths right? Hmmm!
More of the process! Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
What is this fire that we will be baptized with. I often here people say Im baptized in the fire of the Holy Ghost. But it is clearly seen here that they are not the same. Here! 1Cr 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 1Cr 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 1Cr 3:13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 1Cr 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.1Cr 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
We have to change our lives and live as Christ becoming spiritual stones in Gods house. How did Christ live? He was without spot or blemish! The fire Jesus talks of is tribulation! When the fire or tough times come our work will be tried and shown for what it is. If we are building on his truths we will not fail and be rewarded. If we are not building on his truths our work will be shown for what it is. This involves much suffering and is not easy but it is part of the process. I will not candy coat it for you!
Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
We have to look at 2 words here in depth. First narrow. Not a very good choice for the transliteration. If you look at the root you have this. thlibō 1) to press (as grapes), press hard upon 2) a compressed way a) narrow straitened, contracted 3) metaph. to trouble, afflict, distress AV — trouble 4, afflict 3, narrow 1, throng 1, suffer tribulation
Hmmm! Narrow looks a little tougher than narrow! Looks like a tough road to me! Maybe thats why when we look at the 2nd word few it hits home. Few find this way because it is full of tribulation!
But there is hope! This is the hope that makes it all worth while! 1Pe 4:1¶Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
When we have suffered and taken on the mind of Christ he will set us free! We wont run after the flesh but will be doing the will of God! What is the will of God? 1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, [even] your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
We will be made holy and be cleansed, purified by the power(Grace) of God!
What happens after we start walking in the will of God? 2Pe 1:2Grace and peace be multiplied unto youthrough the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
His Grace empowers us and reveals all things to us. Keeping us free from the sins and corruption of the flesh!
May God bless you all with much Grace!
__________________
Elm River Hunt Club
Wayne County Illinois
www.illinoisdeerhunters.com
Becoming a Christian involves a process. Not something we instantly achieve. The trials and tribulations we endure are used to transform us from the fleshly man into the spiritual man he wants us to be!
Ray, Good post bro. I don't think we have any disagreement with the above qoute, however I would have worded it differently. IMO one is a christian when he enters the christian walk. He is not at that point a "mature" christian. He is a newborn babe that must be nurtured and hand fed with milk until he is able to care for himself and take the "meat" of the word. He must grow in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ. He must go on unto perfection, or advance unto a perfect man as Paul said.
Just as with the natural, which is first, so it is with the spiritual which is second. A newborn infant is 100% man, in that he is born into the human family, but he is many years away from being a full grown man.
Becoming a Christian involves a process. Not something we instantly achieve. The trials and tribulations we endure are used to transform us from the fleshly man into the spiritual man he wants us to be!
Ray, Good post bro. I don't think we have any disagreement with the above qoute, however I would have worded it differently. IMO one is a christian when he enters the christian walk. He is not at that point a "mature" christian. He is a newborn babe that must be nurtured and hand fed with milk until he is able to care for himself and take the "meat" of the word. He must grow in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ. He must go on unto perfection, or advance unto a perfect man as Paul said.
Just as with the natural, which is first, so it is with the spiritual which is second. A newborn infant is 100% man, in that he is born into the human family, but he is many years away from being a full grown man.
Will a newborn christian babe be able to enter the kingdom of heaven or be able to see God?
__________________
Elm River Hunt Club
Wayne County Illinois
www.illinoisdeerhunters.com
Last edited by IL_ray_phillips; 02-26-2010 at 09:33 AM.
Will a newborn christian babe be able to enter the kingdom of heaven or be able to see God?
Bro Ray, IMO yes. The bible tell us that sin is the failure to do good, AFTER one has the knowledge to do good. Again, where no law is, there is no transgression. When the Grace of God appears, it bringeth salvation and teaches us about living for God. It is the power of God to live righteously, holy, Godly. ect. in this present life. No one can live that life in their own ability and works, they must have the gift of God, or grace. One can only live and minister according to the MEASURE of the gift of grace give him of God. Bring faithful in a few things will result in a reward of many things. To whom MUCH is given, MUCH will be required. Not all have the same measure. When one has been faithful in what is given, he will then be given more, this is growing in grace and in the knowledge of God. As long as one is faithful, he has no sin because he has done all that his God has revealed and intrusted into his stewardship. However as soon as he fails to obey, and rebels, rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and a witch isn't suffered to live. It then becomes sin unto the disobedient. The law of God has gone forth and now sin has become exceedingly sinful.
Will a newborn christian babe be able to enter the kingdom of heaven or be able to see God?
Bro Ray, IMO yes. The bible tell us that sin is the failure to do good, AFTER one has the knowledge to do good. Again, where no law is, there is no transgression. When the Grace of God appears, it bringeth salvation and teaches us about living for God. It is the power of God to live righteously, holy, Godly. ect. in this present life. No one can live that life in their own ability and works, they must have the gift of God, or grace. One can only live and minister according to the MEASURE of the gift of grace give him of God. Bring faithful in a few things will result in a reward of many things. To whom MUCH is given, MUCH will be required. Not all have the same measure. When one has been faithful in what is given, he will then be given more, this is growing in grace and in the knowledge of God. As long as one is faithful, he has no sin because he has done all that his God has revealed and intrusted into his stewardship. However as soon as he fails to obey, and rebels, rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and a witch isn't suffered to live. It then becomes sin unto the disobedient. The law of God has gone forth and now sin has become exceedingly sinful.
The Apostle Paul was given much. He certainly knew the Law. Nonetheless, there were times when he failed to obey.
Yet, he wrote:
Romans 7:7-25
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. [8] But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. [9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. [10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. [11] For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. [12] Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. [13] Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. [14] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. [15] For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. [16] If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. [17] Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. [18] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. [19] For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. [20] Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. [21] I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. [22] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: [23] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. [24] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [25] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
I know Christian people who tell me that they keep the 10 commandments and the Sermon on the mount. They must be a lot better Christian than me, because I fail. Apparently, Paul sometimes did too.
Yes, if we sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. If we confess our sins, he is just and faithful to forgive us our sins. Many can't see the forest for the trees, but this is Grace by which we are saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.
Most have no idea what grace is, why it is given, and how it works in the lives of the receipent.
The Apostle Paul was given much. He certainly knew the Law. Nonetheless, there were times when he failed to obey.
Yet, he wrote:
Romans 7:7-25
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. [8] But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. [9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. [10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. [11] For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. [12] Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. [13] Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. [14] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. [15] For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. [16] If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. [17] Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. [18] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. [19] For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. [20] Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. [21] I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. [22] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: [23] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. [24] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [25] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
I know Christian people who tell me that they keep the 10 commandments and the Sermon on the mount. They must be a lot better Christian than me, because I fail. Apparently, Paul sometimes did too.
We can all be thankful that God is gracious.
You forgot to highlight the whole point of what Paul wrote! Vs. 24 and 25.
[24] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [25] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
This is the problem with theology and religion. It teaches people to be satified with living in sin when Jesus made a way for us to defeat it and be holy. Yes if we mess up during the process of becoming sanctified we have an advocate. Paul said who shall deliver me from the body of this death. Then he says he thanks God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Jesus delivered him from his body of death. What is death?Sin! When he was delivered from his body of death he had eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Look at the similarities and do a word study in greek on vs 24 and 25 and the scripture below. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
__________________
Elm River Hunt Club
Wayne County Illinois
www.illinoisdeerhunters.com
Will a newborn christian babe be able to enter the kingdom of heaven or be able to see God?
Bro Ray, IMO yes. The bible tell us that sin is the failure to do good, AFTER one has the knowledge to do good. Again, where no law is, there is no transgression. When the Grace of God appears, it bringeth salvation and teaches us about living for God. It is the power of God to live righteously, holy, Godly. ect. in this present life. No one can live that life in their own ability and works, they must have the gift of God, or grace. One can only live and minister according to the MEASURE of the gift of grace give him of God. Bring faithful in a few things will result in a reward of many things. To whom MUCH is given, MUCH will be required. Not all have the same measure. When one has been faithful in what is given, he will then be given more, this is growing in grace and in the knowledge of God. As long as one is faithful, he has no sin because he has done all that his God has revealed and intrusted into his stewardship. However as soon as he fails to obey, and rebels, rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and a witch isn't suffered to live. It then becomes sin unto the disobedient. The law of God has gone forth and now sin has become exceedingly sinful.
Many get mixed up when talk of babes and children get brought up. For example: Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Vs. 3 says unless you be converted and become as little children. First we have to look at converted. It means to turn. If you dont turn from your sins and become as little children you will not enter heaven. How do you become as little children. You become a little child by being born again and humbling yourself to the truth of the Word. If you are not born again you will not enter heaven. If you humble yourself to the word of God you are lowering your self worth and living your life acording to the word of God. So if you are born again and living in the truth you will be able to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Compare Jhn3:3 with 18:3-4 above 1Jo 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1Jo 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 1Jo 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.
We can only enter heaven if we overcome our sins on this earth. If you are born again you will not sin. You cannot because you are being led by the spirit. Would the spirit lead you into sin? So how do we do this?
1Pe 1:22¶Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently: 1Pe 1:23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
These scripture say alot. We purify our souls by obeying the truth. When we humble ourselves and become born again we are born of non corruptible seed or seed that fell on good ground. We have built on the foundation of God. The foundation that is not shaken when hard times come. Seed and a foundation that will not fall to temptation!
This is where the Church of today is. Trying to learn the first principles of God. Hbr 5:12¶For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which [be] the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hbr 5:13 For every one that useth milk [is] unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.Everyone that uses milk is unskilful in the word. If you are in sin you are unskilful in the Word. You dont know how to properly use the Word of God. The person who has been born again is here! Hbr 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. teleios
Full age in the greek! 1) brought to its end, finished 2) wanting nothing necessary to completeness 3) perfect 4) that which is perfect
Then we go on and see what foundation we need to be born again. Hbr 6:1¶Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,Hbr 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
If we have a firm foundation we have stoped repenting from dead works. What is that? We have stopped sinning! We have faith towards God! What is that? What made all the prophets men of great faith? Obedience to Gods commands! We understand proper modes of baptisms(plural). We understand the laying on of the hands.(What we touch that is clean and unclean. Such as doctrine and theology) Understanding resurrection of the dead.(Not raising people from the dead but what will happen when you die) and last but not least eternal judgment.
So will a babe who is on the milk go to heaven being they are not born again until they have overcome their sins?
__________________
Elm River Hunt Club
Wayne County Illinois
www.illinoisdeerhunters.com
So will a babe who is on the milk go to heaven being they are not born again until they have overcome their sins?
Very good post brother. I agree 100% with the scriptures, and about 99% with your acessment of them.
I do disagree with the time of birth coming after the convert has grown and reached maturity or perfection. IMO the New Birth in in the conception of the spiritual man, just as the first birth begins with the natural conception. Growth and maturity then follows as the Spiritual man grows in grace and the knowledge of the God, his ways, doctrines, and will for the new creation in Christ Jesus.
So, Yes I think the newly born again babe in Christ is as saved as the old grizzled veteran. It isn't how long one has been in Christ, but rather what he has done while in Christ. Gods retirement plan isn't based upon lenght of service, but on TRUE service.
The WHOLE duty of man is to fear God and keep his commandments. Nothing else! Whole means the sum total or complete job discription. Keep the commandments of God! What does God declare sin to be? The failure to do good when the knowledge of Gods word has been delivered the operation of the Heavenly gift. Walk in The Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. It is the leading of The Spirit that guides one into the truth, not the truth that leads one into The Spirit. When He, The Spirit of Truth is come, He shall lead you into all truth. Grace teaches us to live soberly, righteously, and Godly in this PRESENT world. For by Grace are ye saved, THROUGH faith. I say all this, for the sake of others who are following our discussion but staying in the shadows and hiding these things in their hearts.
So IMO one is saved according to his obedience unto the things that God has delievered unto him. He isn't required, or held accountable for that which God has not yet revealed unto him. Each is judged by his works, whether they be good or evil. Works based upon the measure of the Gift of Grace given unto him. All receive "The measure of Faith", therefore ADD to your faith knowledge, virtue, ect. Grow in Grace, not grow unto Grace, but IN Grace. 1 Cor 1:18 but unto us who are SAVED, it (preaching of the gospel) is the Power of God UNTO salvation. What is being said? We are saved now! BUT to remain saved one must continue in the Gospel that continues to apear unto the saved with new and greater revelation from God. Being lead of The Spirit!!
Take heed unto thyself and unto the doctrine, for in doing so, thou shalt both save thyself and them that hear thee. NOTICE, one is saved (present tense) but if he believed in the Lord, he shall (future tense) be saved! He that endureth UNTO the end shall be saved. Paul said, but now are ye saved if you keep in memory what I have preached unto you. Saved right now, but tomorrow is contengient on a continuing in the truth.
Grace plus nothing isn't scriptural salvation. Grace plus continuance in the truth as God gives the knowledge and understanding is scriptural salvation.
1 Cor. 3:10-15
According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. [11] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; [13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. [14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. [15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
The narrow Way!
