OK guys, give me your thoughts here. Verse 1 in the midst of a great time of trouble such as never was, thy people shall be delivered, EVERY ONE THAT SHALL BE FOUND WRITTEN in the Book. Is this the Book of Life? If so all of the saved would be delivered here. There will be no other gathering together of the saved at another time? OR will those don't have their names written , but will be saved without being in the Book of Life?
Concerning those who are raised from sleep in the dust of the earth, some awake to everlasting righteousness, but all who awake are not righteous! Some awake unto everlasting shame and everlasting contempt.
Daniel is told that EVERY ONE written in tha Book shall be delivered. Now is "delivered, and awakened" one and the same thing?? He doesn't say that all those who sleep will awake at this time, but rather "Many of them" shall awake. How does Daniel 12 fit together with Matt 24?
SNooky, I just read chapter 12 of Daniel..it may be ny age but I didn't see no Book of Life in that chapter..the only book I saw was the book { Or the prophecy od Daniel} Which verses are you impling sir?
1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation GREAT TRIBULATION even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, Possibly this is the time when the Jews eyes are opened up ...thy people could be people of Daniel's nationality ..Jews..
every one { The rest of us} that shall be found written in the book.
Basically the end time ressercection of Jews and Gentiles.. 2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Chuck,
Thanks for the imput. I am suprised that no one else finds this worthy of discussion.
In verse 1, is the messenger, seperating the Jews from the Gentiles when he says, "Thy people" and "everyone that shall be found written in the Book"? OR is he bringing all into one, and those are they who are written in the Book? "At that time" has to be the time that Michael stands up, so when does Michael stand up? V:6 The question is asked, "How long shall it be to the end of these wonders"? Verse 12-13 The Book ends with these words, Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. But go thy way TILL the end be: for thou shalt rest, (taste death??) and stand (be ressurected?) in thy lot at the end of the days.
We are instructed to "WATCH" and pray, lest that day come upon us unaware.
Daniel understood by the study of books, the events of his day, (Ch. 9:2) shouldn't we also today apply ourselves to a study of the Books that God has left unto us, for our learning?
There are those who say that "Michael", the great prince, is one and the same as Jesus. I can see their argument, BUT I have a problem when a name is given that isn't the Name given Christ by the angels. There is no other name given among men--That name wasn't Michael. What do you think?
I'm not looking to argue, but to get honest impute, to help me make an informed discision based upon scripture.
No sir,
There are actually many BIble verses that instruct serious Christians to shun this forum like the plague.Fact..if you ever see me on this RELGIOUS FORUM again..remind me and I'll send you a 100.00 bill.
Here's a couple of verses though.
1. Advoid them that cause strifes..
2.You can not please man and God..stop looking for praise or amens from man.Seek the prasie that comes from God alone..in the secret place.{ -;
OK guys, give me your thoughts here. Verse 1 in the midst of a great time of trouble such as never was, thy people shall be delivered, EVERY ONE THAT SHALL BE FOUND WRITTEN in the Book. Is this the Book of Life? If so all of the saved would be delivered here. This is during the tribulation and the Body of Christ will already be gone. There will be no other gathering together of the saved at another time? One gathering has already taken place, the rapture of the Body of Christ. OR will those don't have their names written , but will be saved without being in the Book of Life? If they believe who Christ is during the tribulation they will be saved. The 144,000 will be sealed and a remnant of Israel will be saved but not all. some gentiles will be saved and probably be killed shortly after.
Concerning those who are raised from sleep in the dust of the earth, some awake to everlasting righteousness, but all who awake are not righteous! Some awake unto everlasting shame and everlasting contempt. Some will not awake until after the 1000 year kingdom and then they will stand at the great white throne for their judgement.
Daniel is told that EVERY ONE written in tha Book shall be delivered. Now is "delivered, and awakened" one and the same thing?? I think the delivered is the remnant of Israel who will be saved and then the awakened is all believers. He doesn't say that all those who sleep will awake at this time, but rather "Many of them" shall awake. How does Daniel 12 fit together with Matt 24?
They can fit together as well as Revelation. Matthew 24 is all tribulation.
This below is a copy and paste, but explains it better than I can.
Daniel 12:1 "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: (Daniel was a Jew) and there shall be a time of trouble, (That's foretelling of the Tribulation that is yet to come) such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time (That is at the time of the Tribulation) thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. There's going to be a remnant of the Nation of Israel saved during the Tribulation. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
Again Daniel, by inspiration, writes almost as if it's going to be a general resurrection that the lost Jew is going to be resurrected at the same time that the saved Jew is. But you have to compare this with the Revelation and we know that this is not going to be the case. Only the believing Jews are going to be resurrected first, and then a thousand years later (after the Kingdom rule) all the lost Jews and Gentiles are going to be resurrected for the Great White Throne judgment.
Chuck,
Thanks for the imput. I am suprised that no one else finds this worthy of discussion.
In verse 1, is the messenger, seperating the Jews from the Gentiles when he says, "Thy people" and "everyone that shall be found written in the Book"? "Thy people" here is only referring to Jews. OR is he bringing all into one, and those are they who are written in the Book? "At that time" has to be the time that Michael stands up, so when does Michael stand up? V:6 The question is asked, "How long shall it be to the end of these wonders"? Verse 12-13 The Book ends with these words, Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. But go thy way TILL the end be: for thou shalt rest, (taste death??) and stand (be ressurected?) in thy lot at the end of the days.
We are instructed to "WATCH" and pray, lest that day come upon us unaware.
Daniel understood by the study of books, the events of his day, (Ch. 9:2) shouldn't we also today apply ourselves to a study of the Books that God has left unto us, for our learning? Yes everyday.
There are those who say that "Michael", the great prince, is one and the same as Jesus. I can see their argument, BUT I have a problem when a name is given that isn't the Name given Christ by the angels. I have to agree with you, I don't think they are the same. There is no other name given among men--That name wasn't Michael. What do you think?
I'm not looking to argue, but to get honest impute, to help me make an informed discision based upon scripture.
I will post another copy and paste and it helps me learn also. I agree, this can be an interesting study.
Daniel 12:5-7 "Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, `How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?'" (In other words these prophecies written by Daniel) And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be (Now here comes the Tribulation timeline) for a time, times, and an half: (three and one half years) and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished."
Now you say,
"Well I thought the Tribulation was 7 years." Well it is, but the time of the mid-point is when the man Anti-christ will come into the Temple and defile it, and turn on the Jews. So it's that last three and one half years that Daniel is foretelling. It's that horrible, horrible period of time when the earth is going to come under not only the wrath of God, but also of Satan himself. So Daniel is only including the last three and one-half years. Daniel 12:8 "And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, `O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?'"
Now isn't it amazing that these Old Testament prophets got a glimpse of the things that were coming. Now they didn't get the full picture, but Daniel got enough of the glimpse that I think just scared him down to his shoe laces. He probably thought, "What in the world is going to come upon the earth, and especially my people Israel?" So he says, "what shall be the end of these things?" Daniel 12:9 "And he said, `Go thy way, Daniel : for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.'"
What's God saying? That no one was to know these prophetic utterances of Daniel until we get close to the end-time. Did you know there was nothing taught about end-time events until the 1800's? At that time men of God all of a sudden began to put the prophetic Scriptures together and they began to write concerning the nations of the world that would be coming to the top, such as Russia. Who would have dreamed that Russia would become a world power? But they did by virtue of the Scriptures. Bible scholars began to talk about a returning Israel to the land of Palestine. The land of Israel once again becoming a viable nation after being in dispersion for nearly 2 thousand years. Who would have dreamed of such a thing with the Jews scattered all over the world? But these men of God did. Because the Scriptures were beginning to be opened up by the Holy Spirit. And by the time you get to the 1900's there is a whole raft of God's men who were beginning to put the end-time prophecies in a pretty good perspective. You'd be amazed at how close they were to what we've seen happen now in the last 20 years. So The Lord told Daniel that his Book would be closed up until the approach of the end-time. Daniel 12:10 "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; (tested) but the wicked shall do wickedly: (remember sin will become more evident with each passing day) and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand."
The unsaved world out there doesn't have any concept of how accurately that this Book is being fulfilled. And of course this is my reason for believing it from cover to cover. Every prophecy fulfilled proves that this is a supernatural Book. Can you think of a single book of religion, cults or anything that can tell the future 2500 years in advance? There's not a one! This Book is the only one that can do that. Daniel 12:11-13 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (That's 30 days more than the Tribulation is going to run) Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred, and five and thirty days. (which is an extra 75 days after Christ's second coming. And then verse 13 says it so plainly. Everybody in their own order. Remember it was 1. Christ and the firstfruits, 2. The Church the main harvest, and 3. The Old Testament and Tribulation saints, the gleanings and corners) But go thou thy way till the end be; for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot (or company) at the end of the days."
I Corinthians 15:23
"But every man in his own order:..." (or company)
That means that Christ and the firstfruits were the first little group of resurrected people, and then following is the main harvest, which I feel is the Body of Christ, those who have been saved during this age of Grace. And then after the Tribulation has run its course, and we go into the earthly kingdom for an extra 75 days, then the Old Testament saints which includes Daniel and all the rest, plus the Tribulation saints will be resurrected in their company.
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I Corinthians 15: 1-4
Last edited by SFC Retired; 11-09-2009 at 05:07 PM.
This below is a copy and paste, but explains it better than I can.
Daniel 12:1 "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: (Daniel was a Jew) and there shall be a time of trouble, (That's foretelling of the Tribulation that is yet to come) such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time (That is at the time of the Tribulation) thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. There's going to be a remnant of the Nation of Israel saved during the Tribulation. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
Again Daniel, by inspiration, writes almost as if it's going to be a general resurrection that the lost Jew is going to be resurrected at the same time that the saved Jew is. But you have to compare this with the Revelation and we know that this is not going to be the case. Only the believing Jews are going to be resurrected first, and then a thousand years later (after the Kingdom rule) all the lost Jews and Gentiles are going to be resurrected for the Great White Throne judgment.
Sarge; Lets kick this around and see what turns up. This raises more questions for me, but provides little insight, unless I just except the writers ideas without considering what Daniel really said. Daniel declared a great time of trouble, (tribulation is a term we apply that may be deceiving in a sense) but we agree, it was still future when Daniel spoke of it.
Daniel didn't say that it was going to be the worst time ever, but was to be the worst until that time. He didn't say that it was to be the last time of trouble. A brief study of history, (I posted some dates and times, ect. earlier) that could have been the fulfilling of the vision. They surely haven't been surpassed unto this day. Not speaking for the world as a whole, but concerning the "children of thy people".
Look again at those who were to be delievered at that time. Even "everyone that was found written in the Book". Is one saved without having their name written in the Book? Is the Book limited to the natural Jew only? Or also includes the Jew inwardly? Notice the word "every" one found written in the Book. Is it possible to deliever one at a later date and still be consistant with the words of the prophecy?
Many shall awake from the dust, does many mean all?, or just a portion of those who sleep? Some awake to everlasting life, and some unto everlasting shame and contempt. Is he saying, "as a tree falleth, so shall it lie"? Or is he saying that those who miss salvation the first time around, will get a second chance later?
Daniel chapter 12 question
