Matthew 16:16-18 "16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
This passage has been the topic of a discussion or two here, about whether the "rock" here is actually Peter, or the Truth that Peter had just spoken. Comparing scripture, it seems blatently clear to me.
I Corinthians 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." (emphasis mine)
Matthew 26:73-75, Mark 16:67-72, Luke 22:59-61, and 18:26-28 all give the story of Peter denying Christ 3 times when asked if he were associated with Christ. Not exactly a rock.
Chad
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"We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all."-- Theodore Roosevelt
A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Ecclesiasties 10:2
The last four letters in American..........I Can
The last four letters in Republican........I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief corner stone;Eph 2;20
A Stone is a Rock so you are right Yeshua is the Rock in which Christ founded the Church, if it would have being on peter well look and see..........
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters’ clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the airon, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 And in the adays of these bkings shall the God of heaven cset up a dkingdom, which shall never be edestroyed: and the fkingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall gbreak in pieces and hconsume all these ikingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the astone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made bknown to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
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The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. Zephaniah 1:14
פרץ
Simon is symbolic of a reed that sways in the wind but the name Peter is solid. Of course, Peter is the name that was given to him by Jesus (or Ya-weh). God had or has a purpose for everything that he has done and that is why I find this verse even more interesting because it is that much more REVEALING! God spoke in parables ALL of the time and this was just another one of those times. Obviously God used this oppurtinity to reveal it in this way,
"and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
in the way that even though Simon's faith was swayed, Peter was able to see Christ and acknowlege Him! Remember when Jesus had to ask Peter if he loved Him three times?
I'm not swayed one way or the other. It's interesting how everything in the bible is interconnected in meaning but then seperated and taken out of context. My faith in Jesus Christ is my rock and we will build His church by spreading the word and our faith in Him! Therefore, the Truth is not up for debate.
...but it looks as though Chad is itching to lose another debate with me.
To loose "another" debate, I have to loose one with you.
It doesn't matter what I say or think anyway--the Bible is right, if we disagree then we are wrong.
Chad
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"We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all."-- Theodore Roosevelt
A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Ecclesiasties 10:2
The last four letters in American..........I Can
The last four letters in Republican........I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
It doesn't matter what I say or think anyway--the Bible is right, if we disagree then we are wrong.
More true words were never spoken. Let every man be a liar, but let God be true. Gods word is final. Until one can tell me the number of sparrows upon the earth, and the moment that one dies, until one can tell me the number of hairs upon every head of man, there will be no question about Gods knowledge being supreme. One can fight against God by denying this Holy Word unto the death, but Gods word will remain unchanged after man is gone.
Was the question asked by Jesus, Who do mean say that I, The Son of Man am' or was it who do they say that you are Peter?
Peter answered and Jesus declared that Peter's knowledge of who Jesus was had been given as a revelation of The Father in Heaven. The revelation of Jesus Christ as the Rock, the source of "living waters", The rock that give Israel life in the dry and thirsty land in which no water was. That Jesus alone is the Rock of our salvation. For WHO is a ROCK SAVE OUR GOD? And upon this rock, of revelation, I will build MY CHURCH. The Rock of Israel. My God is the Rock of my refuge. That Rock was Christ. We are complete in Him, (him isn't Peter) who is the head of all principilities and power.
When Jesus took the chosen with him upon the mountian, there appeared unto them Moses and Elijah, (Moses=The Law, Elijah, the prophets) speaking with Jesus. When they looked a second time, they saw none, but Jesus only. The Law and the Prophets brought us unto the incarnation, the time when The Fulness of the Godhead dwelt bodily in Jesus. Jesus is THE CHIEF STONE OF THE CORNER. Alpha and Omega, Beginning and the Ending, First and the Last, The Almighty. Rev 1:8
Now Using The Hebrew Idiocyncray if Jesus have said and Upon This Rock(Pointing with his finger to Himself as Customary) I will build my church, who is the rock then ?.
Or did he point at Peter ? lol
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The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. Zephaniah 1:14
פרץ
I intended to answer this earlier but I've been dealing with a bit of morning sickness which kind of distracts me. It's not as bad as it was with Miriam, for which I'm grateful.
Yes, Jesus is referred to as a rock in other passages, but in this instance He was referring to Peter. Note that He has even renamed Peter who was originally Simon, son of Jonas. Now if Jesus had said, "you are a rock, BUT upon this rock" (pointing to Himself as Alex suggests, the meaning would be different. But He doesn't say that. Jesus says "You are Peter (Rock) AND upon this rock I will build my community." There is no change of flow in the sentence. Jesus is obviously referring to Peter as the rock on which He will build His community. (Apparently the word is 'community,' not church. The translators of the KJV got a little loose at times.) So Peter is definitely The Rock to which Jesus refers, unless you have some reason to reinterpret these words.
Admittedly though, if this were the only statement in the passage, it wouldn't really have much significance. But Jesus didn't stop there. You guys tend to stop there, but Jesus didn't. He goes on to give Peter the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven and tells him that whatsoever he binds on earth will be bound in heaven and whatsoever he looses on earth will be loosed in heaven. That is some powerful stuff and, as far as I'm concerned clearly proves that Jesus is giving Peter a commission and the authority to lead the community and to decide what is right and what is not.
In addition, we don't have just this passage as proof. Evidently the members of the early church (Christian community) accepted Jesus commission to Peter and the delegation of Peter's authority to his successors.
I feel fortunate in that I was raised with Shinto as my only exposure to religion. So I had no preformed opinions and when this was explained to me, it seemed completely clear. I investigated other churches and their teachings, but it was clear to me that there were variances from Jesus' fairly clear teachings.
I'm going to try to eat some breakfast now.
It's strange how women will go through this birth thing over and over but it's a good thing they do
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Proud parents of our own "Daddy's Little Girls"
I heard Jesus He drank wine and I bet we'd get along just fine.
The Real "Rock"
I don't have time now, but it looks as though Chad is itching to lose another debate with me.
He's just an innocent lamb
