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Religion Discuss how your religious views affect your hunting lifestyle. All religions are welcome to post.

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Old 10-04-2009, 01:57 PM   #1
Spike
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Default Proof for an Intelligent Creator and His purpose

According to science our universe has a beginning (search at “age of the universe” on www.pnas.org) and time is purely physical. Therefore there can be no such thing as time external to the physical universe. Timespace has a beginning.

It is a fundamental law of physics (causality) that every physical occurrence in the universe has a cause.
The fundamental laws of physics then require a cause of the universe ex nihilo (since timespace has a beginning); i.e., a Prime Cause Singularity that is non-dimensional and independent of timespace.

To conclude the above paragraphs:
Fact: No thing nor event in the known universe or laws of physics lacks a cause.
Assume: There is no Prime Cause (Creator / Singularity).
Ergo: There is no universe.
Fact: There is a universe.
Therefore: the statement that was assumed is proven to be a false statement by reduction ad absurdum (proof by disproof).
(Since "There is no Creator" is proven false, the opposite is true: There is a Creator.)

Being logically consistent (orderly), our (to say perfectly-orderly would be a tautology) orderly universe must mirror its Prime Cause / Singularity-Creator—Who must be Orderly; i.e. Perfect. An orderly—"not capricious," as Einstein put it—Creator (also implying Just), therefore, necessarily had an Intelligent Purpose in creating this universe and us within it and, being Just and Orderly, necessarily placed an explanation, a "Life's Instruction Manual," within the reach of His subjects—humankind.


It defies the orderliness (logic / mathematics) of both the universe and Perfection of its Creator to assert that humanity was (contrary to His Torah , see below) without any means of rapproachment until millennia after the first couple in recorded history as well as millennia after Abraham, Moses and the prophets. Therefore, the Creator's "Life's Instruction Manual" has been available to man at least since the beginning of recorded history. The only enduring document of this kind is the Torah —which, interestingly, translates to "Instruction" (not "law" as popularly alleged). (Source and further reading of how to relate to the Creator:www.netzarim.co.il)

The fact that the Creator is perfect implies that He isn’t self-contradictory. Therefore any religion, and all religions contradicts each other (otherwise they would be identical), that contradicts Torah is the antithesis to the Creator.

(The most common counter arguments are answered at http://bloganders.blogspot.com/searc...er%20arguments)

Anders Branderud
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Old 10-05-2009, 10:13 AM   #2
Typical Buck
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andersbranderud View Post
According to science our universe has a beginning (search at “age of the universe” on www.pnas.org) and time is purely physical. Therefore there can be no such thing as time external to the physical universe. Timespace has a beginning.

It is a fundamental law of physics (causality) that every physical occurrence in the universe has a cause.
The fundamental laws of physics then require a cause of the universe ex nihilo (since timespace has a beginning); i.e., a Prime Cause Singularity that is non-dimensional and independent of timespace.

To conclude the above paragraphs:
Fact: No thing nor event in the known universe or laws of physics lacks a cause.
Assume: There is no Prime Cause (Creator / Singularity).
Ergo: There is no universe.
Fact: There is a universe.
Therefore: the statement that was assumed is proven to be a false statement by reduction ad absurdum (proof by disproof).
(Since "There is no Creator" is proven false, the opposite is true: There is a Creator.)

Being logically consistent (orderly), our (to say perfectly-orderly would be a tautology) orderly universe must mirror its Prime Cause / Singularity-Creator—Who must be Orderly; i.e. Perfect. An orderly—"not capricious," as Einstein put it—Creator (also implying Just), therefore, necessarily had an Intelligent Purpose in creating this universe and us within it and, being Just and Orderly, necessarily placed an explanation, a "Life's Instruction Manual," within the reach of His subjects—humankind.


It defies the orderliness (logic / mathematics) of both the universe and Perfection of its Creator to assert that humanity was (contrary to His Torah , see below) without any means of rapproachment until millennia after the first couple in recorded history as well as millennia after Abraham, Moses and the prophets. Therefore, the Creator's "Life's Instruction Manual" has been available to man at least since the beginning of recorded history. The only enduring document of this kind is the Torah —which, interestingly, translates to "Instruction" (not "law" as popularly alleged). (Source and further reading of how to relate to the Creator:www.netzarim.co.il)

The fact that the Creator is perfect implies that He isn’t self-contradictory. Therefore any religion, and all religions contradicts each other (otherwise they would be identical), that contradicts Torah is the antithesis to the Creator.

(The most common counter arguments are answered at http://bloganders.blogspot.com/searc...er%20arguments)

Anders Branderud
As a Deist I believe in a Creator who initiated the Big Bang and then played no further role in the evolution of the Universe. However, I can not claim with certainty that the physical laws we observe today mean that Physics can be used to show that for the Universe to exist there had to be a creator that created it from nothing. If you keep going back far enough in time, about 13.7 billion years you approach the time when the Big Bang occurred creating the physical Universe. Before you get to t=0 when the Big Bang occurred you reach a point about 5x10^-44 seconds after t=0 which is known as the "Planck time" before which the Universe was dominated by quantum gravity. To determine what happened before the Planck time Physics needs a theory of quantum gravity, i.e. a theory that would unify the theories of General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. Einstein spent the latter half of his life in an unsuccessful attempt to create such a theory. Many physicists, mathematicians and astronomers have spent their careers attempting to find a workable theory of quantum gravity over the last 80 years. Yet we still do not have a theory of quantum gravity and therefore can not say that the physical laws that have prevailed since the Planck time were in existence before it. Therefore we can not say with certainty that creation of the Universe required a cause, such as a creator, under the physical laws that governed the Universe's birth and evolution up until the Planck time.

Therefore, the existence of a creator that caused the creation of the Universe can not be proven through application of the laws of physics.
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