logo
 

Go Back   HuntingNet.com Forums > Non Hunting > Religion

Religion Discuss how your religious views affect your hunting lifestyle. All religions are welcome to post.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-04-2009, 01:06 PM   #1
Nontypical Buck
 
Kosherboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 2,509
Default "False Christians,Teachers and Prophets".

Warning: I don't want you to be misled. Some consider me to be a false teacher, and this is written by a former believer, not a current believer.

Recently, one commenter to my writings has expressed disapproval of me and my writing, and it started me thinking, "How a Christian respond to someone that they feel is living in sin, spreading error, or is weak in the faith?

1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves.

~2Peter 2:1

It is pretty clear that the leadership of the early Church warned believers to be on guard against false, false teachers, and, according to II Peter, these false teachers bring destruction on themselves. I think the writer of II Peter believed that this destruction they bring on themselves would be coming from God, and not at the hands of vigilantly believers seeking to do God's dirty work for Him.

The message from II Peter is aimed at the believers. The writer is not talking to the false teachers he is talking to those who might potentially be affected by these false teachers.

14 that we be not now little children, moving as waves, and be not borne about with each wind of teaching [and be borne about with all wind of teaching], in the waywardness of men, in subtle wit, to the deceiving of error.

~Ephesians 4:14

8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

~Colossians 2:8

16 This is what the LORD Almighty says:

"Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you;

they fill you with false hopes.

They speak visions from their own minds,

not from the mouth of the LORD.

~Jeremiah 23:16

There is literally NO QUESTION that the Bible opposes false teachers, false prophets, and false doctrine. But how does the Bible suggest that believers to deal with these false teachers, and non believers?

1. Follow a Progressive Discipline Plan

15"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. ~Matthew 18:15-17


First, attempt to talk privately with the person who you feel is wrong, and attempt to correct them .
Second, if they refuse to listen take one or two witnesses and again attempt to correct their errors.
Third, tell it to the church. I assume here there are prayers and perhaps social pressure that might impact the thinking of the errant brother or sister.
Four, finally, if they still refuse to listen the church, the believers, the called out, are to treat this brother the way you would treat a pagan or a tax collector.
But what does it mean to treat someone as a pagan or tax collector?

1. Avoid them.

Perhaps the best way to answer this is to find examples in the scriptures of how Jesus treated pagans and tax collectors. Remember that the pagans were people who were not God-followers. They were outsiders, they were "those people", they were trouble-makers, they were unclean, sinful, untrustworthy, disreputable, and enemies of the Children of Israel.

The only thing worse was being a "tax collector". The tax collectors were Jews that collected tax for the Roman government. The Romans were an occupying oppressor and anyone collecting tax for them was not just a tax collector but they were also traitors, sell-outs, and guilty of complicity with the Romans to extort money from family and countrymen. These tax collectors often used force and pain to steal from their brethren.

I am not sure how most Christians would view me: I may be considered a pagan, a false teacher, or a dishonest creep like those Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ----Edited to Remove Profanity ---- tax collectors, but how did Jesus treat these very bad folk?

But how did Jesus himself treat pagans and tax collectors?

Jesus went to dinner parties at their homes of these pagans and tax collectors.

Jesus invited them to his teaching events.

Jesus actually used a pagan as an example of great faith

On the cross Jesus forgave a pagan's sins and sent him to paradise.



2. The Bible tells believers to avoid false teachers

17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

~Romans 16:17

14 If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed. 15Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.

!II Thessalonians 3:14-15

I have had a number of comments from one reader responding with annoyance, and perhaps some degree of anger over articles I have written. I have urged this reader to stop reading my stuff, and asked her to stop reading, and avoid stuff that annoyed her. This is Biblical advice, I think. 3. The Bible tells believers not to judge those weak in the faith. Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. Romans 14:1

1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment?

~Romans 2:1-3

Perhaps you have heard the old Christian saying, "Condemn the sin, and not the sinner." I think a careful study of the scriptures will show that the main thrust of the teachings advocate for opposing sin, refuting false doctrine, but not to do God's job for God. God is in charge of the judging stuff. 14And we urge you, brothers, warn those who are idle, encourage the timid, help the weak, be patient with everyone.

~1Thessalonians 5:14

Instead of judging, Christians are urged to:
warn the idle
encourage the timid
help the weak, and
be patient with everyone.
3 The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone.

~Romans 14: 2-7

Clearly, Paul is discussing how Christians should respond and relate to other people with whom they have Biblical disagreements. Paul points out that one person might consider one day more important than another; and another person might believe that we should esteem every day alike: By bringing this difference to the attention of the Church Paul is letting all Christians know that he is not just talking about calendar disputes, he is talking about principles and not just this one specific issues. What the Apostle Paul says has application to more than just eating meat, or how to consider holidays.

The Apostle Paul goes on to say that we should allow each person be fully convinced in his own mind: Here, Paul seems to be willing to leave controversial issues up to the conscience of the individual. Obviously, Paul is not saying to ignore false teaching. This section is not about how to deal with false teachings, this is about how to deal with those you consider to be false teachers.

Well, what is a Christian to do with someone won't reconcile?

Well, this is America so you can do what you want.

You can tell them that they are annoying, that they need to grow up, that they are purposely spreading lies, that they may be stupid, if that is what you want to do. I am not sure that is the best way to convert someone, but bash away if you want.

Or you could treat them like the people Jesus loved, lived for, and for whom Jesus died to save.

You could engage these weak brothers or sisters, or these false teachers seeking to build a deeper relationship.

You might consider praying for them and continue to offer reconciliation, and

You could remember how Jesus reconciled you.

__________________
The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. Zephaniah 1:14
פרץ
Kosherboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 05:58 AM   #2
Fork Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 482
Default

I little bit of leaven.......

It is false teaching if you think we are in the tribulation now.

PRETERISM --- DON’T YOU BELIEVE IT !</B>
Preterism is the theory that all future prophecies were nullified by the "fulfillment" (their word) of Matthew 24:34 where Jesus says, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." In other words, preterists try to tell us that 70 AD fulfilled everything. There is nothing left but? - they really don’t say. But if that is the case, how do they explain present day Israel back in the land being prepared for their Messiah.
They claim to be letter perfect in their interpretation of Matthew 23:34, and then proceed to expel or twist all the prophetic things that are still awaiting a future fulfillment. If all future events were fulfilled by Titus in 70 AD, then what do they do with the following scriptures? Did any of these things take place before, and up to, 70 AD? An ounce of common sense says, "No."
But if the Preterists’ premise is true, then what do they do with all of these things that have not happened yet?

Acts 1:11 - "...this same Jesus which is taken up from you into heaven shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." - (Bodily, head first, from the Mt. of Olives)

Romans 11:12 - "Now if the fall of them (Israel) be the riches of the world (our gospel of Grace), and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles (our age of Grace); how much more their fulness?" (Israel’s future blessing)

Romans 11:23 - "And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graft them in again."

Romans 11:24 - "...how much more shall these, which be the natural branches (Israel), be graffed into their own olive tree?"

Romans 11:25 - "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery (secret), lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part (for a while) is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles (the Body) be come in."

II Thess. 2:3,4 - "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day (the Day of the Lord - the Tribulation) shall not come, except there come a falling away (or a departure) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."(Compare this with Daniel 11)

II Thess. 2:8 - "And then shall that Wicked (the Anti-christ) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming."
Jude verses 14 and 15a - "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all,...."
Now, here are more verses from the Old Testament - Keep asking - "Have/Did these things happen before 70 AD?"
Deut. 30:1,2a - "And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, wither the Lord thy God hath driven thee, And shalt return unto the Lord thy God, and shalt obey his voice...."
Ezek. 37:1-10, 12- (the vision of the dry bones) "Therefore prophesy and say unto them (the whole house of Israel), Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves (the Gentile nations), ...and bring you to the land of Israel."
Ezek. 37:21, 22, 23- "And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God."
Ezek. 47:9- "And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh."
Ezek. 47:10- "And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from En-gedi (now a resort on the West shores of the Dead Sea) even unto En-eglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea (Mediterranean), exceeding many."
Daniel 9:27- "And he (the Prince-the Anti-christ) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (7 years): and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." (the desolator, the Anti-christ)-(This is the verse Jesus referred to in Matthew 24:15)
Joel 3:2- "I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land."
Joel 3:15, 16- "The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel."
Amos 9:15- "And I will plant them (Israel) upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the Lord thy God."
Zech. 14:4a- "And his feet (the Lord’s-see verse 3) shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east...." (Compare that with previously quoted Acts 1:11 - He left head first - He returns feet first.)
Zech. 14:8- "And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half toward the hinder sea (Dead Sea): in summer and in winter shall it be." (Compare with previously quoted Ezek. 47:9 and 10.)
Zech. 14:9- "And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one."
These are just a few of the scriptures that refer to future events that could not have taken place before 70 AD.
So, what do Preterists do with all this? They simply throw them out or twist them so completely that they change their meaning. And what does Scripture say about people who twist Scripture?
II Peter 3:16- "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
__________________
I Corinthians 15: 1-4
SFC Retired is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 07:04 AM   #3
Nontypical Buck
 
Kosherboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 2,509
Default

What does preterism has to do with me ? So if they think all was fulfilled in 70 Ad then they are wrong, if they think that the 70 weeks of Daniel were fulfilled in 70 AD then they are right.
__________________
The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. Zephaniah 1:14
פרץ
Kosherboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009, 07:07 AM   #4
Fork Horn
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosherboy View Post
What does preterism has to do with me ? So if they think all was fulfilled in 70 Ad then they are wrong, if they think that the 70 weeks of Daniel were fulfilled in 70 AD then they are right.
No. I did not say that.
__________________
I Corinthians 15: 1-4
SFC Retired is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:55 PM.