"God Protect Me from Your Followers"

Kosherboy · 09-27-2009, 09:24 AM

I appreciate and enjoy reading Alan Knox. Probably because I agree with most everything he writes. His latest post is no exception. Entitled Convictions Without Separation, Alan has given scripture as a reason to have theological convictions without separating from those who differ from our convictions. Relationships are more important than being right.
Alan writes:

However, Paul recognized that some people in the church considered it wrong to eat meat that had been sacrificed to those idols. Because of their convictions, and because of his desire not to cause offense with his brothers and sisters in Christ, Paul said that he would not eat meat around these people. In fact, he said that if it caused problems for his fellow believers, he would never eat meat again.

Note, according to Paul, these people were wrong. They were wrong theologically. They misunderstood God and gods. They misunderstood the nature of idols. They misunderstood what it means to worship God. In spite of their being wrong, Paul changed his own practices to accommodate them and their wrong beliefs because he cared more about his brothers and sisters in Christ.

We need this attitude. We need to recognize that it is possible to hold convictions (about baptism, the Lord’s Supper, the nature of salvation, etc.) without separating from other brothers and sisters in Christ because of those convictions.

In other words, we do not deal with people and interact with them and fellowship with them based on their opinions or statements about various doctrines. Instead, we deal with, interact with, and fellowship with people based on their identity in Christ! If they are children of God then they are our brothers and sisters, regardless of how wrong they (or we) might be.

Debbie Kaufman

Denny77 · 09-27-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kosherboy

I appreciate and enjoy reading Alan Knox. Probably because I agree with most everything he writes. His latest post is no exception. Entitled Convictions Without Separation, Alan has given scripture as a reason to have theological convictions without separating from those who differ from our convictions. Relationships are more important than being right.
Alan writes:

However, Paul recognized that some people in the church considered it wrong to eat meat that had been sacrificed to those idols. Because of their convictions, and because of his desire not to cause offense with his brothers and sisters in Christ, Paul said that he would not eat meat around these people. In fact, he said that if it caused problems for his fellow believers, he would never eat meat again.

Note, according to Paul, these people were wrong. They were wrong theologically. They misunderstood God and gods. They misunderstood the nature of idols. They misunderstood what it means to worship God. In spite of their being wrong, Paul changed his own practices to accommodate them and their wrong beliefs because he cared more about his brothers and sisters in Christ.

We need this attitude. We need to recognize that it is possible to hold convictions (about baptism, the Lord’s Supper, the nature of salvation, etc.) without separating from other brothers and sisters in Christ because of those convictions.

In other words, we do not deal with people and interact with them and fellowship with them based on their opinions or statements about various doctrines. Instead, we deal with, interact with, and fellowship with people based on their identity in Christ! If they are children of God then they are our brothers and sisters, regardless of how wrong they (or we) might be.

Debbie Kaufman

Reads OK but Alex, I went to his web blog and only read a little. Much about the Catholic Church. I think you would be better served going to a Catholic Web site if you want to know what the Catholic Church believes and is about.......he doesn't appear to be well versed in the subject.....Sorry. I can see why you enjoy it though

Kosherboy · 09-27-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny77

Reads OK but Alex, I went to his web blog and only read a little. Much about the Catholic Church. I think you would be better served going to a Catholic Web site if you want to know what the Catholic Church believes and is about.......he doesn't appear to be well versed in the subject.....Sorry. I can see why you enjoy it though

You are joking Right ?

sachiko · 09-27-2009, 02:21 PM

I agree with what the man says Alex. My only exception would be that I believe we are all children of God, not just those of us who are Christians.

It's nice to be part of the flock

Denny77 · 09-27-2009, 03:37 PM

The spouse of Christ cannot be adulterous; she is uncorrupted and pure. She knows one home; she guards with chaste modesty the sanctity of one couch. She keeps us for God. She appoints the sons whom she has born for the kingdom. Whoever is separated from the Church and is joined to an adulteress, is separated from the promises of the Church; nor can he who forsakes the Church of Christ attain to the rewards of Christ. He is a stranger; he is profane; he is an enemy. He can no longer have God for his Father, who has not the Church for his mother. (Treatise on the Unity of the Church 6)

Alan – you make a good point that we need to not confuse the church with the organisation. The issue to me was spiritual and political adultery at this time.

Snooky · 09-27-2009, 05:33 PM

My only exception would be that I believe we are all children of God, not just those of us who are Christians.

My question to this statement is, can one have two fathers?? Jesus said, you are of your father the devil. If, in fact all are children of God, wouldn't that mean that Jesus just said that God and the devil are one and the same?

God cannot lie, and the devil is the father of lies.
Are we serious, or just talking to hear our mouth make noise?

sachiko · 09-27-2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snooky

My only exception would be that I believe we are all children of God, not just those of us who are Christians.

My question to this statement is, can one have two fathers?? Jesus said, you are of your father the devil. If, in fact all are children of God, wouldn't that mean that Jesus just said that God and the devil are one and the same?

God cannot lie, and the devil is the father of lies.
Are we serious, or just talking to hear our mouth make noise?

I don't think I understand what you're saying. Could you rephrase it?

Kosherboy · 09-27-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daddyslittlegirl

I agree with what the man says Alex. My only exception would be that I believe we are all children of God, not just those of us who are Christians.

It's nice to be part of the flock

No we are not all Children of God although we should be.
We who believe and have receive Christ have the power to have become children of God John 1.12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Everyone who has not are all creatures of God.A bit of a difference.

sachiko · 09-27-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kosherboy

No we are not all Children of God although we should be.
We who believe and have receive Christ have the power to have become children of God John 1.12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Everyone who has not are all creatures of God.A bit of a difference.

I believe we are all children of God. Of course children don't always conform to what they're father expects of them. We'll have to agree to disagree on that Alex.

(It's late and the sheep have hit the hay.)

IL_ray_phillips · 09-27-2009, 06:06 PM

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

There is a requirenment to be called a child of God. Have to put the flesh/sin aside and be led by the spirit. This is where we check ourselves with 1 John 3 and see if we are true children of God or just kidding ourselves. Hard scripture to swallow for most!

1Jo 3:9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1Jo 3:10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.