The Bible Is not A Book Of Science #2

[Kosherboy]

Since the original has grown out of band width I will like to answer Lemaitre on this;

If through proven and reliable methods we have learned the Andromeda galaxy is 2 million light years away and at the speed that light travels, which has been measured very precisely, we know through the application of reason that it must have taken that light 2 million years to get here, thereby making a 6.000 year old Universe incompatible with logic and reason. As a Deist, I believe that human reason, not scripture such as "let there be", leads to both physical and religious truth. Deism rejects the miracles it would take for light to travel 2 million light years in 6,000 years.

Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and Benjamin Franklin were Deists which is why the phrase "Nature's God" is used in the Declaration of Independence and there is no mention of God, the Bible or Christianity in the Constitution. Many of the leading thinkers of the 18th century were Deists and Deism is currently one of the fastest growing religions in the United States.Lematrie.

Dear sir, Let me tell you were science is flawed, the creator cannot be measured by using man made science, The Bible does notdescribe God as a man, or his existence to be within our realm of time and space and Methods of Measuring.
Lets say that the Andromeda Galaxy is 2.5 Billion Light years away ? what does that mean to you and me ? well simply you and I cannot travel there because it is too far, or that the Universe is so large that by man's measurements it began 4 billion years ago, which is the common reasoning.
That would be man's answer, But the bible's answer is that the creator does not exist in a place bound by the laws ofnature or man's thoughts and science.
Yes the man made science might be correct the Andromeda Galaxy might be 2 billion light years away, what does that mean to God ? NOTHING! we Believe in a God without measurements, we believe that all God had to do was to push the Andromeda Galaxy with his pinky away from our Galaxyand placed it there,he might have one foot on our Galaxy and one in the furthest Galaxy out there, time and space and distance is irrelevant to the God of Israel, so your argument from the bible is Futile and irrelevant To God and To Us Who he believed In That Type Of God, who created the hollow of the Oceans with his thumb."I was Just playing with one of my Grandkids, I was bouncing a beach ball up in the air and he of course trying to take it away from me, To him an impossibility right now, he is 3 feet tall while my arms reach 8 feet in the air, the same is for us and God.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth... God saw all that he had made, and it was very good." (Genesis 1:1, 31)
"You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You give life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship you." (Nehemiah 9:6)
"He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing. He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight. He covers the face of the full moon, spreading his clouds over it. The pillars of the heavens quake, aghast at his rebuke. By his power he churned up the sea.... By his breath the skies become fair.... And these are but the outer fringe of his works; how faint the whisper we hear of him! How then can we understand the thunder of his power?" (Job 26:7-9, 11-14)
"How many are your works, O Lord! In wisdom you made them all; the earth is full of your creatures. There is the sea, vast and spacious, teeming with creatures beyond number-living things both large and small. (Psalm 104:24-25)
"Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." (John 1:3)
Christ "is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him." (Colossians 1:15-16)
"In these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe." (Hebrews 1:2)

[LBR]

As I said on the other one, it amazes me that some people will put their faith in "science", which cannot accurately predict what the weather will be tomorrow, to tell them what was happening "millions" of years ago.

Chad

[Lemaitre]

Kosherboy,
You quote a lot of scripture in your post to support your position. As Deists we reject scripture's special revelation, no matter which text it is from, as a means to learn the truth about Nature's God and the Creation. Deism relies on human reason to reveal these truths and science is a a very powerful form of human reasoning. The scientific evidence says the Earth is 4.5 billion years old. The methods used to reach this conclusion such as radioisotope dating are the product of human reason and therefore are accepted while the 6,000 year age implied by the special revelation of the Bible is rejected.

[LBR]

Deism relies on human reason to reveal these truths and science is a a very powerful form of human reasoning.

You are fooling yourself. You base your belief on faith, just like everyone else. You have faith that the "science" is correct (how, I have no idea--see my earlier post), you have faith that the person doing the experiments is honest and accurate, etc. Or you do personally conduct the experiments and personally verify what you believe to be true?

Chad

[Lemaitre]

ORIGINAL: LBR

You are fooling yourself. You base your belief on faith, just like everyone else. You have faith that the "science" is correct (how, I have no idea--see my earlier post), you have faith that the person doing the experiments is honest and accurate, etc. Or you do personally conduct the experiments and personally verify what you believe to be true?

Chad

I do not accept radioisotope dating on the basis of faith. The laws of radioactive decay have been known for over 100 years and have been verified numerous times in laboratory experiments since then. What I need is trust that the researcher measuring the age of a rock is qualified to apply the method, has done the work competently and has reported his results honestly. If I read in a journal such as Science that a meteorite has been dated to be 4.6 billion years old I can have a high level of trust in that figure. I know that Science only publishes articles by scientists known to the editors to have a proven track record for both competence and honesty and that the article has been through a rigorous peer review process before it is accepted for publication. This can not be said for scripture where the actual author is often unknown and no methodology is given for the claims they make. This is the difference between Deism with its emphasis on human reason that is open to all to reveal truth and revealed religions such as Christianity and Islam.

[LBR]

I do not accept radioisotope dating on the basis of faith.

So, you have been around for thousands/tens of thousands/hundreds of thousands of years, to verify this method is foolproof?

Like I said, it amazes me that some people will put their faith in science when even the most honest and qualified scientist cannot accurately predict tomorrow's weather.

Chad

[Kosherboy]

Lemaitre, there is no where in the bible that says the earth is 6,000 years old, It Jewish Sages that Say that in the Midrash ,it is a rabbinical opinion based on tracing the ages of the Fathers from Adam To Noah from Noah to now, that man appeared on earth 6 to 10,000 years ago, The Churches have picked this teaching up as fact.

[Lemaitre]

ORIGINAL: LBR

So, you have been around for thousands/tens of thousands/hundreds of thousands of years, to verify this method is foolproof?

I don't need to be around for thousands of years to verify the age of the rock. I only need to know the relative concentrations of parent radioisotope and daughter product (which can be determined in a laboratory) and the rate at which radioactive decay occurs (also determinable in the laboratory) and apply human reason in the form of doing a calculation to know the age of the rock. Deists prefer methods like these where anyone can apply human reason to learn and verify the truth of Nature's God's creation. With revealed religions where the founders of the faith are the only ones directly privy to the supposed truth, all other followers are basically relying on nothing more than hearsay information that they are unable to verify.

[LBR]

I only need to know the relative concentrations of parent radioisotope and daughter product (which can be determined in a laboratory) and the rate at which radioactive decay occurs (also determinable in the laboratory) and apply human reason in the form of doing a calculation to know the age of the rock.

And you have to accept, by faith, that nothing has changed.....that the isotopes haven't managed to stabilize or become less stable at one point or another (since you weren't around those thousands of years ago), and the rate of decay hasn't changed. You weren't there to see it in person, so you accept it by faith.

You can fool yourself into believeing science has all the answers, but when you get right down to it you only find more questions with no real answers.

[The Rev]

ORIGINAL: Lemaitre

I don't need to be around for thousands of years to verify the age of the rock. I only need to know the relative concentrations of parent radioisotope and daughter product (which can be determined in a laboratory) and the rate at which radioactive decay occurs (also determinable in the laboratory) and apply human reason in the form of doing a calculation to know the age of the rock. Deists prefer methods like these where anyone can apply human reason to learn and verify the truth of Nature's God's creation. With revealed religions where the founders of the faith are the only ones directly privy to the supposed truth, all other followers are basically relying on nothing more than hearsay information that they are unable to verify.

If you have so much faith in science try www.creationevidence.orgTake time to read what Dr. Carl Baugh has to say.