Not being a Baptist, I can find find arguments to be made with portions of the following, but over all I thought this was worthy of an honest look. Some good values are set forth in this copy and paste.
History
In the late 1800s and early 1900s, Baptist churches were awakened to the advancement of modernism and liberalism into national Baptist denominations and conventions in both the United States and the U.K.. Many local Baptist churches began to feel that the core elements and doctrines of the Christian faith, such as the nature of God, the infallibility of the Bible, the literal person of Jesus Christ as both God and man, the nature of the Trinity, the literal resurrection of Christ, and the need for Christians to be separate from worldliness were being watered down and abandoned. Although during the same time period mainline denominations were struggling with the Fundamentalist-Modernist Controversy, many within these local Baptist churches felt that any association with Liberalism/Modernism even in the forum of debate was tantamount to compromise and was therefore unscriptural. As a result, many of these local Baptist churches separated from their former denominations and conventions and reestablished themselves as independent churches. Often within these Denominational churches more conservative elements would set about establishing new Independent Baptist churches instead of remaining within the denominational churches.[1]
[edit] Current developments
In the last 20 to 30 years, Modern Bible translations based on the Critical Text, the use of Contemporary Christian Music in worship services, increased Calvinistic teaching, and the issue of Lordship salvation have divided many liberal leaning IFB churches.
[edit] Distinguishing elements
Independent Baptist churches are very conservative in their beliefs and many are still conservative in their styles of worship. They tend to reject many things found in most denominational churches because they believe in the doctrine of separation, based on the command "...Come out from among them [the unsaved world], and be ye separate, saith the Lord...."(II Corinthians 6:17) [2] They may exclude the following, depending on the individual church:
[ul][*]Rock and roll and other forms of modern music, including Contemporary Christian Music[*]Dancing[*]Certain contemporary dress styles, such as pants on women, as well as long hair and earrings on men[*]Visiting movie theaters[*]Drinking of alcohol[*]Use of tobacco[*]Sex outside of marriage between one man and one woman, such as premarital sex or any other sexual contact, extramarital sex, and homosexuality[*]Abortion (in some cases, all forms of birth control are opposed) [/ul]
Independent Baptists tend to also support conservative American politics, with one notable exception"”the general consensus opposes school vouchers on the basis that such vouchers, if accepted by church-operated schools, would allow the government a "foothold" into the teachings and practices of the individual church, giving it authority to dictate what could and could not be taught.
IFBs may choose to homeschool their children rather than sending them to public school, in order to give them a Christian education over a secular one.
[edit] Attributes
IFB churches are generally defined by several attributes:
[ul][*]Very conservative Christianity; "hellfire and damnation", "fire and brimstone" preaching[*]Taking a strictly literal ("fundamentalist") interpretation of the whole Bible (in other words, believing the Word of God as God had it written), and thus also believing in Biblical inerrancy, usually through the King James Bible.[*]Being independent (local and autonomous, as opposed to being affiliated with a national or international organization or governing body such as the Southern Baptist Convention or the Roman Catholic Church), with congregational polity.[*]Practicing believer's baptism by immersion.[*]Shunning of the ecumenical movement and liberalism in all forms -- social, political, and religious and shunning of social movements that are perceived to be unbiblical such as feminism, environmentalism, and acceptance of homosexuality, as well as pre-marital sex and divorce and other such things[*]Shunning of worship expressions of Charismatic Christianity, including syncopated and non-traditional music such as Christian Rock and so-called "praise bands" in favor of traditional old-time hymns[*]Coming down firmly on the missionary side of the missionary/anti-missionary controversy (for more on the latter, see primitive baptist)[*]Shunning of activities seen as immoral in in Baptist tradition, such as gambling, consumption of alcoholic beverages (see temperance movement), drug use, and tobacco use.[*]Advocating a traditional patriarchic lifestyle - a family based around a husband who works, a wife who keeps the home and is in submission to him, and children who are taught to honor and obey their parents. 1 Peter 3:1 [1] and Ephesians 5:22 [2] [/ul]
For me Snooky..it's all about fruit. Ihave not been fond of Baptist in the past..HOWEVER; if a man or women is sold out there should be a good check in your spirit..such as Adrian Rogers..if you listen to him preach you will see he is all about obedience , holiness and loving God with the whole heart..Adrian Rogers has caused me to re evaluate my attitude toward baptist.Fact..his goal is unity among the baptist and the church of Jesus Christ in general.. Am I a baptist.no..but if a man or women is sold out and bearing the fruit of the spirit..I will listen whole heartely..Now , after I listen to all 100 messages..I'm sure some of that will influence me.
So far I've heard 3 messages..
1/ About faith which was AWESOME
2. Carnal Man , Natural Man and Spiritual man..very good/
3. Last night I heard one on joy..very good.
All of these so far would have been welcomed by any church..
Not being a Baptist, I can find find arguments to be made with portions of the following, but over all I thought this was worthy of an honest look. Some good values are set forth in this copy and paste.
History
In the late 1800s and early 1900s, Baptist churches were awakened to the advancement of modernism and liberalism into national Baptist denominations and conventions in both the United States and the U.K.. Many local Baptist churches began to feel that the core elements and doctrines of the Christian faith, such as the nature of God, the infallibility of the Bible, the literal person of Jesus Christ as both God and man, the nature of the Trinity, the literal resurrection of Christ, and the need for Christians to be separate from worldliness were being watered down and abandoned. Although during the same time period mainline denominations were struggling with the Fundamentalist-Modernist Controversy, many within these local Baptist churches felt that any association with Liberalism/Modernism even in the forum of debate was tantamount to compromise and was therefore unscriptural. As a result, many of these local Baptist churches separated from their former denominations and conventions and reestablished themselves as independent churches. Often within these Denominational churches more conservative elements would set about establishing new Independent Baptist churches instead of remaining within the denominational churches.[1]
[edit] Current developments
In the last 20 to 30 years, Modern Bible translations based on the Critical Text, the use of Contemporary Christian Music in worship services, increased Calvinistic teaching, and the issue of Lordship salvation have divided many liberal leaning IFB churches.
[edit] Distinguishing elements
Independent Baptist churches are very conservative in their beliefs and many are still conservative in their styles of worship. They tend to reject many things found in most denominational churches because they believe in the doctrine of separation, based on the command "...Come out from among them [the unsaved world], and be ye separate, saith the Lord...."(II Corinthians 6:17) [2] They may exclude the following, depending on the individual church:
[ul][*]Rock and roll and other forms of modern music, including Contemporary Christian Music[*]Dancing[*]Certain contemporary dress styles, such as pants on women, as well as long hair and earrings on men[*]Visiting movie theaters[*]Drinking of alcohol[*]Use of tobacco[*]Sex outside of marriage between one man and one woman, such as premarital sex or any other sexual contact, extramarital sex, and homosexuality[*]Abortion (in some cases, all forms of birth control are opposed) [/ul]
Independent Baptists tend to also support conservative American politics, with one notable exception"”the general consensus opposes school vouchers on the basis that such vouchers, if accepted by church-operated schools, would allow the government a "foothold" into the teachings and practices of the individual church, giving it authority to dictate what could and could not be taught.
IFBs may choose to homeschool their children rather than sending them to public school, in order to give them a Christian education over a secular one.
[edit] Attributes
IFB churches are generally defined by several attributes:
[ul][*]Very conservative Christianity; "hellfire and damnation", "fire and brimstone" preaching[*]Taking a strictly literal ("fundamentalist") interpretation of the whole Bible (in other words, believing the Word of God as God had it written), and thus also believing in Biblical inerrancy, usually through the King James Bible.[*]Being independent (local and autonomous, as opposed to being affiliated with a national or international organization or governing body such as the Southern Baptist Convention or the Roman Catholic Church), with congregational polity.[*]Practicing believer's baptism by immersion.[*]Shunning of the ecumenical movement and liberalism in all forms -- social, political, and religious and shunning of social movements that are perceived to be unbiblical such as feminism, environmentalism, and acceptance of homosexuality, as well as pre-marital sex and divorce and other such things[*]Shunning of worship expressions of Charismatic Christianity, including syncopated and non-traditional music such as Christian Rock and so-called "praise bands" in favor of traditional old-time hymns[*]Coming down firmly on the missionary side of the missionary/anti-missionary controversy (for more on the latter, see primitive baptist)[*]Shunning of activities seen as immoral in in Baptist tradition, such as gambling, consumption of alcoholic beverages (see temperance movement), drug use, and tobacco use.[*]Advocating a traditional patriarchic lifestyle - a family based around a husband who works, a wife who keeps the home and is in submission to him, and children who are taught to honor and obey their parents. 1 Peter 3:1 [1] and Ephesians 5:22 [2] [/ul]
I have been out of town, but will look at this later. Have I got you curosity up or, are you trying to condemn>?
Basically approving and commending what was written. I am not in total agreement, but there is a lot of good things being said, if they are in deed being practiced. I agree with most all churches in some areas, as I find all have doctrine that contain truth as I see and understand truth.As you said, "if I found a church teaching more truth, I would be part of that Church".
Unlike some, I am not a very good "cheerleader", You know what cheerleaders do, they stand on the sidelines and make a lot of noise. Yea team, Go! Go!, Fight! Fight!, Push I'm back, Push I'm back!! ect.
Paul said to run as one that winneth the prize. Iron sharpeneth iron. Cheerleaders don't win contests, the contestants are the factors that matter. Everyonewill notbe 100% correct in all things. The way IMO to come unto a better understanding, and gain skill as a good soldier, is to "contend for the faith that was once delivered unto the saints". What does contend mean? We both believe that the bible says what it means, and means what it says. Its Gods word, and it says "contend". My dictionary says that means 1. fight; struggle. 2. take part in a contest; compete. 3. argue;dispute. 4. declare to be a fact; maintain as true.
Cheerleaders don't contend, rather often condemn the contenders.
However, there are times I like to acknowledge truth where ever I find it, and there was enough truth there IMO to warrant some credit for the efforts to maintain things that are being laid aside by the majority.
If I said everything was 100% correct and that I was in total agreement, I would be a lair IMO. I would do you a disservice. I would fail to keep the admonition of God through the scriptures instruction. I would be a deceiver and a compromiser.
I come to this site for 2 main reasons, 1. To learn from the discussion of differing view points, more about the truth. 2. To present the truth of the scriptures that I have managed to be enlightened to over the years, that someone may have their understanding farther enlightened.
Dave, As often said, one who stands for nothing, falls for everything. We are often guilty of taking away what a man has, and we have nothing to offer in its place. Jesus taught that THAT day would not come except there come a falling away first. We have seen an extreme decline in convictions among ALL the modern day churches. When convictions are not present, neither is the power and dimenstration of the Spirit and move of God in the midst. Where are the signs, wonders, miracles, ect. today?? The same place the old time Godly convictions are-- stored away in yester years closet. They are only faded memories of a time when God ruled in the hearts of men.
Stand ye in the way and ask for the old paths, wherein is the good way, and walk therein.
The son of the bondwoman for years has ridiculed the heir of the promises and condemned those who would dare to openly embrace the convictions given by the Holy Ghost. He has accused the brethern of being self righteous, hyprocrites, with out love, driving away those who would be saved. Many have listened to the gainsayers and hid there light under a bushel. As Gedeon, they are thrashing behind the mill for fear of being seen by the Philistines. It's time to break the pitcher and let the light shine.
Hold fast and build upon that which has been given.
Not being a Baptist, I can find find arguments to be made with portions of the following, but over all I thought this was worthy of an honest look. Some good values are set forth in this copy and paste.
History
In the late 1800s and early 1900s, Baptist churches were awakened to the advancement of modernism and liberalism into national Baptist denominations and conventions in both the United States and the U.K.. Many local Baptist churches began to feel that the core elements and doctrines of the Christian faith, such as the nature of God, the infallibility of the Bible, the literal person of Jesus Christ as both God and man, the nature of the Trinity, the literal resurrection of Christ, and the need for Christians to be separate from worldliness were being watered down and abandoned. Although during the same time period mainline denominations were struggling with the Fundamentalist-Modernist Controversy, many within these local Baptist churches felt that any association with Liberalism/Modernism even in the forum of debate was tantamount to compromise and was therefore unscriptural. As a result, many of these local Baptist churches separated from their former denominations and conventions and reestablished themselves as independent churches. Often within these Denominational churches more conservative elements would set about establishing new Independent Baptist churches instead of remaining within the denominational churches.[1]
[edit] Current developments
In the last 20 to 30 years, Modern Bible translations based on the Critical Text, the use of Contemporary Christian Music in worship services, increased Calvinistic teaching, and the issue of Lordship salvation have divided many liberal leaning IFB churches.
[edit] Distinguishing elements
Independent Baptist churches are very conservative in their beliefs and many are still conservative in their styles of worship. They tend to reject many things found in most denominational churches because they believe in the doctrine of separation, based on the command "...Come out from among them [the unsaved world], and be ye separate, saith the Lord...."(II Corinthians 6:17) [2] They may exclude the following, depending on the individual church:
[ul][*]Rock and roll and other forms of modern music, including Contemporary Christian Music[*]Dancing[*]Certain contemporary dress styles, such as pants on women, as well as long hair and earrings on men[*]Visiting movie theaters[*]Drinking of alcohol[*]Use of tobacco[*]Sex outside of marriage between one man and one woman, such as premarital sex or any other sexual contact, extramarital sex, and homosexuality[*]Abortion (in some cases, all forms of birth control are opposed) [/ul]
Independent Baptists tend to also support conservative American politics, with one notable exception"”the general consensus opposes school vouchers on the basis that such vouchers, if accepted by church-operated schools, would allow the government a "foothold" into the teachings and practices of the individual church, giving it authority to dictate what could and could not be taught.
IFBs may choose to homeschool their children rather than sending them to public school, in order to give them a Christian education over a secular one.
[edit] Attributes
IFB churches are generally defined by several attributes:
[ul][*]Very conservative Christianity; "hellfire and damnation", "fire and brimstone" preaching[*]Taking a strictly literal ("fundamentalist") interpretation of the whole Bible (in other words, believing the Word of God as God had it written), and thus also believing in Biblical inerrancy, usually through the King James Bible.[*]Being independent (local and autonomous, as opposed to being affiliated with a national or international organization or governing body such as the Southern Baptist Convention or the Roman Catholic Church), with congregational polity.[*]Practicing believer's baptism by immersion.[*]Shunning of the ecumenical movement and liberalism in all forms -- social, political, and religious and shunning of social movements that are perceived to be unbiblical such as feminism, environmentalism, and acceptance of homosexuality, as well as pre-marital sex and divorce and other such things[*]Shunning of worship expressions of Charismatic Christianity, including syncopated and non-traditional music such as Christian Rock and so-called "praise bands" in favor of traditional old-time hymns[*]Coming down firmly on the missionary side of the missionary/anti-missionary controversy (for more on the latter, see primitive baptist)[*]Shunning of activities seen as immoral in in Baptist tradition, such as gambling, consumption of alcoholic beverages (see temperance movement), drug use, and tobacco use.[*]Advocating a traditional patriarchic lifestyle - a family based around a husband who works, a wife who keeps the home and is in submission to him, and children who are taught to honor and obey their parents. 1 Peter 3:1 [1] and Ephesians 5:22 [2] [/ul]
The Independent Baptist Church I attend in not connected to any independent baptist association. I am not told what I should do or not do, that is for me to study myself and make my own decesion. As I have stated before, the Gospel of Grace is preached there, every Sunday morning, Sunday night and Wednesday night. I hope you can figure out what the true gospel is because:
II Corinthians 4:3,4 "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:"
"In whom (lost people) the god of this world (Satan) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who (Christ) is the image of God, should shine unto them."
I don't know if this answered your question or concerns, maybe you should come and visit one Sunday.
SFC, Thanks for the invite. I'm sure I would enjoy it, but as much as I enjoy a good steak, I would find it losing its flavor if I ate it every meal. As great a message as "the grace of God" is, it takes the rest of the book to provide a balanced diet for the soul.
Your answers have me wondering if you don't believe the "Individual predestination from before the world was" doctrine, and are calling predestination, the grace of God. Would that be true?
SFC, Thanks for the invite. I'm sure I would enjoy it, but as much as I enjoy a good steak, I would find it losing its flavor if I ate it every meal. Believe me, it won't, and that does prove, you do not understand or evenknow what the gospel is. As great a message as "the grace of God" is, it takes the rest of the book to provide a balanced diet for the soul.
Your answers have me wondering if you don't believe the "Individual predestination from before the world was" doctrine, and are calling predestination, the grace of God. Would that be true?
Are you afraid you might hear something that would go against your tradition or something you have not heard before.
As for the Predestination: Our human mind can't understand it, but yes God knew before the foundation of the world who would be saved.
Look at it this way: You have a door (and that door is always at easy access), and above that door is written - Whosoever will. You choose to walk through that door and then after you are in, turn around and look at what is written wbove the door on that side: Chosen before the foundation of the world.
credit where credit is due
