I've been reading up on whether Jesus allowed for divorce or not and came across this interesting perspective. This is a partial quote from the argument and the full explanation can be found at the link below. I'm still digesting some of this and am studying other material. What does everybody think?
Our study of the Jewish setting, historical and geographical background, and the immediate context of Matthew 19:1-12 suggests that by the exception clause ("except for porneia") Jesus permitted divorce only in the case of an unlawful marriage to a near relative. By means of the porneia exception, Christ did not intend to impose the Levitical norms for legitimate marriage, but simply to declare that when such norms were violated, there was a valid reason for the dissolution of marriage.
This view is consistent with the absolute value that Mark, Luke, and Paul place on the saying of Jesus. We are bound to conclude that by the exception phrase about porneia, Jesus did not intend to open the way for divorce and remarriage in the case of sexual misconduct. Rather, He wished to reaffirm the creational principle of the permanence of the marriage union by allowing for divorce only in the case of an unlawful marriage. In the light of this conclusion, Matthew 19:9 would read: "whoever divorces his wife, unless his union with her is illegitimate, and marries another, commits adultery."
The teaching of Jesus in the Gospels can be summarized in two points. First, divorce is forbidden because it violates God"™s intention that marriage be a permanent union of two persons. Second, remarriage after divorce is adultery because divorce does not dissolve the marriage union.
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Jesus Christ--The reason for the season!
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a veteran.
If you're certain you know everything, there's little opportunity to learn anything.
It boils down to sin..DIvorce people such as myself are in BIG trouble...and my wife fooled around on me while I was in my first semester of Bible college..yet that doesn't get me off the hook..I shouldn't have married her..I knew she had issues when I married her.
Still ..after 2 days of fasting before I married my 2nd wife..I had to
A.come to the conclusion that I'm a sinner..period in need of God's mercy even though it looks like it's my wife's fault...I should have known better not to marry her in the first place..I was warned by the Lord.
B. I'm in trouble..my only out is mercy..and THIS is why my focus is forgiving and lovin gothers..After fasting and prayer I came to the conclusion from James.2..there will be 2 thrones..one of Judgement..for those who like to judge and one for mercy to those whom have lived a life of mercy..For me..it's mercy.. mercy ..mercy ..I judge no one. Yes there are times I try to stand up on the Off Season and come down hard......but my purpose is to warn them..not condemn them. I don't want to see anyone burn in H E L L ..That is my only piupose for that..
Yes ,I deserve H E L L thanks be to God for His mercy that endureth forever.Thank you Jesus ..I love you.
Chuck7
Do you agree with the posted material or do you believe in the "marital unfaithfulness" interpretation? I'm not being a smart-aleck. I would really like to hear your opinion and why you believe that way.
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Jesus Christ--The reason for the season!
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a veteran.
If you're certain you know everything, there's little opportunity to learn anything.
But that article is too long..I hate reading..but I read most..
and...
a. I think the man is mostly speaking statements as facts when they are simply his opinions..
b. I used to preach the sameting..until it happened to me..then you switch gears and run to the horns of the altar..
c. No I don't agree..way to much speculation..that writer was not back there in the age of the Old Testament..
Like I said before I don't condone divorce BUT it's not the unpardonable sin..and technically..we all need mercy ..not just the divorcee..He knows he needs mercy but truly truly..we all need to seriously take a long honest look in the mirror.There is none of us that is fit for heaven apart from the blood of Jesus..As the article itself..I don't care for it..shooting off too many things as facts when to me they are opinons..
BUT you Calhunter...are a super nice guy and I hope God blesses you and all of yours richly,
C7
Cal,
To critique this article correctly though ..if you want to we need to copy and paste one section at a time..That is just too muchto read..even for us teachers..
This might be a fascinating discussion. My husband has some of the Steinsaltz translation of the Talmud, so I dug out the tractate, Ketubot, to try to find out what they said about divorce. Just looking through it, apparently you can divorce your wife for any number of reasons, but I haven't done much of an analysis yet.
I'm going to print off that link of yours if I can, and review it in terms of the passages he cites. ( I hate reading stuff off a computer screen.)
I like his analysis that Jesus is going back to the original institution of marriage by God in Genesis where it is evidently supposed to be a permanent linking of male and female, i.e., "one flesh."
I'm looking forward to folks' comments on the essay.
Marriage, and divorce, is really not a sheep thing The fact that some humans fight over females like male sheep is kind of animalistic though
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Proud parents of our own "Daddy's Little Girls"
I heard Jesus He drank wine and I bet we'd get along just fine.
I'm sure somebody will find fault with this interpretation (see below text with included link) BUT in examining this translation/definition, it would seem that Porneia was defined too narrowly in the above study. In other words, the above author seemed to think morneia (Greek word) meant adultery and most people agree with that translation. The author then opines that Christ's use of the word porneia only referred to an illegal marriage to begin with, i.e. incest, etc. and offers proof of this opinion by saying the disciples were shocked at Christ's narrow viewpoint on when divorce was "permitted," not required.
I can understand why he would consider that shock value from the disciples like that but then think it is illogical that Christ would say that marrying your child, sibling or parent is wrong and nullifies a marriage but bestiality, adultery and other forms of unlawful sex would require you to remain in a marriage and not meet the requirements of Christ's exception clause.
The New Testament Greek Lexicon Strong's Number:4202pornei�aOriginal WordWord Originpornei�afrom (4203)Transliterated WordPhonetic SpellingPorneiapor-ni'-ah Parts of SpeechTDNTNoun Feminine6:579,918Definition[*] illicit sexual intercourse[*] adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.[*] sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18[*] sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11, [/ol][*] metaph. the worship of idols[*] of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols [/ol][/ol]
__________________
Jesus Christ--The reason for the season!
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a veteran.
If you're certain you know everything, there's little opportunity to learn anything.
First of all thanks for taking the test..you can see now that I'm not much of an intellegetual person as you strongly border in that area..I like concrete simple explinations but I am an Achiever and will complete the task.. I will do my best to Analyze the copy and paste but don't expect too much from me.[8D]
Chuck7,
I'm sure somebody will find fault with this interpretation (see below text with included link) BUT in examining this translation/definition, it would seem that Porneia was defined too narrowly in the above study. In other words, the above author seemed to think morneia (Greek word) meant adultery and most people agree with that translation. The author then opines that Christ's use of the word porneia only referred to an illegal marriage to begin with, i.e. incest, etc. and offers proof of this opinion by saying the disciples were shocked at Christ's narrow viewpoint on when divorce was "permitted," not required.
I can understand why he would consider that shock value from the disciples like that but then think it is illogical that Christ would say that marrying your child, sibling or parent is wrong and nullifies a marriage but bestiality, adultery and other forms of unlawful sex would require you to remain in a marriage and not meet the requirements of Christ's exception clause.
The New Testament Greek Lexicon Strong's Number:4202pornei�aOriginal WordWord Originpornei�afrom (4203)Transliterated WordPhonetic SpellingPorneiapor-ni'-ah Parts of SpeechTDNTNoun Feminine6:579,918Definition[*]illicit sexual intercourse[*]adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.[*]sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18[*]sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,
[ol][/ol][*]metaph. the worship of idols[*]of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols
[ol][/ol]
[ol][/ol][/blockquote]
Sincerely Calhunter..you've lost me..
Now let me get us focused on the 2009 era.
Forget what Hollywood shows us..We as Christians should.
A. Love our wives as Christ loved the Church.
B. Remember Peter calls them the "Weaker Vessel" so have mercy on their short comings.
C. God hates divorce..so do all you can do to have your marriage bring glory to God.
I'm sorry I let you down with replying to your copy and paste Cal..but it is wayover my head.Just being an honest..I'm a buck sergeant not a general..
I like his analysis that Jesus is going back to the original institution of marriage by God in Genesis where it is evidently supposed to be a permanent linking of male and female, i.e., "one flesh."
Don't feel bad Chuck. Until I ran across this, I had no idea it was such a controversial topic in christian churches.
Basically the different groups of rabbis back in Jesus' day had 2 different sets of rulings on divorce. One group said a husband could divorce his wife for just about any reason (burnt dinner, etc.). The other group said you could only divorce your wife for something really serious like adultery, bestiality, unlawful marriages, etc. Men could initiate a divorce in the Jewish culture but not women. The Greeks and Romans allowed man and women to intiiate a divorce.
John the Baptist had previously been beheaded by Herod for speaking out about Herod marrying improperly (that's a whole 'nother incestuous story and a doozy). Christ came along and some Pharisees thought they would trap Jesus with a trick question to elicit his response about divorce, remarriage and to see if they could get Jesus in trouble with Herod.
Within this setup situation and question, Jesus spoke about when marriage occurred, when divorce was legal and what the law was.
First, Christ reminded them that God created marriage and joined 2 people together. It was man who created divorce and Moses only allowed it because of their hard hearts. Jesus then explained that divorce wasn't allowed except for porneia.
Many people in old times and today argue about the meaning of porneia and thus when is a divorce acceptable to God. Most people understand that God hates divorce (Malachi) and that God "permits" divorce under this exception but does not not require it and actually prefers a couple work out their differences. We are supposed to work out our marital problems with a repentant spouse and only seek divorce when all else fails and this exception clause applies in our specific situation and our spouse is unrepentant.
People disagree on exactly what "porneia" means and often interpret Christ's intended meaning based upon the disciples reaction to Jesus' teaching on this subject.
Some people super-strictly interpret that Christ specifically said porneia (all kinds of bad sex) instead of "morneia" (adultery specifically) for a reason. They argue that the disciples' reaction that it would be better not to marry at all means they understood the narrow language in this exception clause meant divorce is only allowed if you are in an illegal marriage (married to a relative, incest, etc.) and adultery doesn't apply since Christ didn't specifically mention it (morneia).
Other people argue that such a "ruling" or opinion on what Christ meant kind of cherry picks (my term) only some of the meanings of porneia and ignores the rest (including adultery). As you can see, this is a little confusing and there is a little "reaching" involved in some of these interpretations.
IMHO (uneducated though it may be), I find it illogical for any of these scholars to think that Christ is saying one kind of immoral sex that violates a marriage is not grounds for a divorce but another type of immoral sex is grounds. Using that logic, 1 sin is worse than another and we would all be graded on some kind of sliding scale or curve when the truth is we're all sinners, fail miserably and cannot achieve the grace of God on our own.
So my primitive thoughts on the matter are that Christ intended for ALL the meanings of porneia (including adultery) to be included in his exception clause for divorce and that we will all still need Christ's sacrifice for our salvation. That's my story and i'm sticking to it.
__________________
Jesus Christ--The reason for the season!
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a veteran.
If you're certain you know everything, there's little opportunity to learn anything.
Jesus' Opinion on Divorce
I hate reading..but I read most..
and I hope God blesses you and all of yours richly,
Marriage, and divorce, is really not a sheep thing The fact that some humans fight over females like male sheep is kind of animalistic though
Parts of SpeechTDNTNoun Feminine6:579,918Definition[*] illicit sexual intercourse[*] adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.[*] sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18[*] sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11, [/ol][*] metaph. the worship of idols[*] of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols [/ol][/ol]
