Snooky,
I hear you often make reference to jewish festivals..Can you do us a favor..?
Can you please make a list of all these festivals and give your understanding on each ofthem..Some of us our afraid to reply not knowing what angle you are coming from.It would be much easier to know what your understanding is..on each one.plus it would be educational for most of us don't understand any of them even in the simplest terms.
Chuck, To do a study on the Tabernacle in The Wilderness, The seven feast of Israel, ect. would require a lot of time and much typing. Let me just make a a couple of statements to give you an insite as to where I am coming from. If there is a specific question, I would be glad to try to deal with it as I see it applying to us today.
My first contention is that everything in the Old was written that we might understand the New.The Old is a schoolmaster to lead us to the knowledge of the New.The Old contains the New Testament concealed. The New Testament contains the Old Testament revealed. Example: The Tabernacle in the Wilderness was a working model of the TrueTabernacle in Heaven, which God pitched and not man. Thy will be done on earth AS it is in Heaven. The Old Scriptures was the ONLY scriptures used to preach to the early church,and they went everywhere preaching Christ and him crucfied. Jesus said, These (old testament scriptures) are them that testify of me. Jesus opened the disciples understanding to the Law, The Prophets, and The Psalms, that they could understand what was written there concerning him. IMO to understand the Jesus of the New Testament, one must also know the Jesus of the Old Testament. Jesus Christ the same in the Old Testament, The New Testament, and Forever. God never changes. His word endureth forever.
What is spoken in the New, that wasn't forshadowed in the Old?
It is easy to build doctrines when ALL of the scripture is not being used. To restrict the Old, or to set it aside as irrelevant will open the door for potentially false doctrines.
Man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, both Old and New Testament. Jer.36:6 "which thou hast written from my mouth"
Seven= Gods number of completion
Seven feasts of Israel are:
3Spring feasts taking place in rapid succession
1. Passover 2.Unleavened bread 3. Firstfruits.
These three were all fulfilled in Christ, but not destroyed.
There was One summer feast.
4. Pentecost. Acts chapter 2. 50 days after Passover.
There are Three fall feasts yet unfulfilled.
5.Feast of Trumpets. 6. Day of Atonement. 7. The Feast of Tabernacles.
In these are taught the plan of Salvation. Also these teach Gods plan for the ages. One needs to stay out of Daniel and Revelation until he comes to grips with the 7 Feasts and their teaching.
Note: 7 feasts, 7 days of creation, 7 days in a week, 7 months in the Jewish religious calander, 7 Churches,7 Spirits of God, 7 vials, 7 trumpets, 7 sabbaths from Passover to Sinai, 7 sabbaths from Calvary to Pentecost, 7 sabbaths of years for one Jubilee, 7 decades=mans allotted time, 7 weeks of weeks of decades=490 years or the time God works through the Jews to fulfill his purposes in history.
The time frame IMO and thinking today, but subject to change with the revelation of more truth.
2,000 years before the Law, 2,000 years under the law w/its types and shadows bringing us to Christ, 2,000 years of last days fulfillment in which 6 feasts are to come to pass, then 1,000 years millemium with the 7th feast, climaxing W/the last great day.
KB can probably correct me on some of these details as he has studied this much longer than I.
Snooky, First and foremost..thanks for taking the time doing this.
Chuck, To do a study on the Tabernacle in The Wilderness, The seven feast of Israel, ect. would require a lot of time and much typing. Let me just make a a couple of statements to give you an insite as to where I am coming from. If there is a specific question, I would be glad to try to deal with it as I see it applying to us today.
My first contention is that everything in the Old was written that we might understand the New. Agreed..and amen.
The Old is a schoolmaster to lead us to the knowledge of the New.The Old contains the New Testament concealed. The New Testament contains the Old Testament revealed. Amen..Example: The Tabernacle in the Wilderness was a working model of the TrueTabernacle in Heaven, which God pitched and not man. Thy will be done on earth AS it is in Heaven. The Old Scriptures was the ONLY scriptures used to preach to the early church,and they went everywhere preaching Christ and him crucfied. Jesus said, These (old testament scriptures) are them that testify of me. Jesus opened the disciples understanding to the Law, The Prophets, and The Psalms, that they could understand what was written there concerning him. Amen
IMO to understand the Jesus of the New Testament, one must also know the Jesus of the Old Testament. This is where we take different paths..maybe...I see God as Jehovah and Jesus as Lord..However..in1 COrinthinaswe read..well let's find it..wait right here.[8D]
1 Corinthians 10
1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
7Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
Like I said.."Maybe" you may have something here..
Jesus Christ the same in the Old Testament, The New Testament, and Forever. God never changes. His word endureth forever.
What is spoken in the New, that wasn't forshadowed in the Old?
It is easy to build doctrines when ALL of the scripture is not being used. To restrict the Old, or to set it aside as irrelevant will open the door for potentially false doctrines. OK ..we don't stoneadulturers anymore..it's ok to eat pork now Snooky and we worship on Sundayinstead of Sat.BUT yes I agree..that everything in the Old was to teach us lessons in the New..and to reveal GOd's plan of salvation.
Man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, both Old and New Testament. Jer.36:6 "which thou hast written from my mouth" yes but you and I know we no longer keep the law.. Seven= Gods number of completion
Seven feasts of Israel are:
3Spring feasts taking place in rapid succession
1. Passover 2.Unleavened bread 3. Firstfruits.
These three were all fulfilled in Christ, but not destroyed.
There was One summer feast.
4. Pentecost. Acts chapter 2. 50 days after Passover.
There are Three fall feasts yet unfulfilled.
5.Feast of Trumpets. 6. Day of Atonement. 7. The Feast of Tabernacles.
In these are taught the plan of Salvation. Also these teach Gods plan for the ages. One needs to stay out of Daniel and Revelation until he comes to grips with the 7 Feasts and their teaching.
Note: 7 feasts, 7 days of creation, 7 days in a week, 7 months in the Jewish religious calander, 7 Churches,7 Spirits of God, 7 vials, 7 trumpets, 7 sabbaths from Passover to Sinai, 7 sabbaths from Calvary to Pentecost, 7 sabbaths of years for one Jubilee, 7 decades=mans allotted time, 7 weeks of weeks of decades=490 years or the time God works through the Jews to fulfill his purposes in history.
The time frame IMO and thinking today, but subject to change with the revelation of more truth.
2,000 years before the Law, 2,000 years under the law w/its types and shadows bringing us to Christ, 2,000 years of last days fulfillment in which 6 feasts are to come to pass, then 1,000 years millemium with the 7th feast, climaxing W/the last great day.
KB can probably correct me on some of these details as he has studied this much longer than I.
IMO to understand the Jesus of the New Testament, one must also know the Jesus of the Old Testament. This is where we take different paths..maybe...I see God as Jehovah and Jesus as Lord..However..in1 COrinthinaswe read..well let's find it..wait right here.[8D]
IMO our difference here is more of a Godhead question, was Jesus God?, Lord?, Christ?, These 3 are one? two? or these three are three different Jesus's??
Man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, both Old and New Testament. Jer.36:6 "which thou hast written from my mouth" yes but you and I know we no longer keep the law..
Here we disagree to some extent, but not as much as you may think. IMO We, Spirit filled and led, born again members in particuliar of the Body, are the only one who have, and can keep the law. Paul declares that the righteous of the law might be fulfilled in us. Fulfilled because the handwritting of ordinances which was against us, (mankind) is now transfered from stone into our hearts and made alive by the infilling of HIS Spirit, giving us the power that Israel never had. The letter killeth, but the Spirit maketh alive.
Do you see any connection with this veiw and what Paul said in Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I Myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Marvel not that ye must be born again! That which is flesh is flesh, and that which is Spirit is Spirit.
Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. There is the key to keeping the Law of God, dying unto self, and living unto God. Old things pass away, and behold all things become new. A new creation in Christ. Hiers of God and joint heirs with Christ. Bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh. Born of God!
What do you think?
I'm in a hurry to get to the school Bible study..I will get back with answers..and will gladly continue with the study as long as respect and love stay at the top...
I do love studying God's Word..and I do know I have MUCH more to learn..Just as those 2 men walked with Jesus and didn't even realize who He was until HE opened their eyes..
We've gone down this road before ..my prayer is that we can do this study with respect..love and lots of good scripture study..even if no one changes their view..there is profit from reading the Word.
I'll be back tonight to answer those questions to the best of my ability in the Lord.
Have a wonderful day,
Chuck7
IMO our difference here is more of a Godhead question, was Jesus God?, Lord?, Christ?,
Tough question for me as I can find scriptures that back up both views..
Especially Isaih 9..John 1 that would support Oneness...And yet many others that support one submitting to another ..with statement such as "Why call me good? There is none good but my Father.." SO until I get a revelation {And I'm not throwing that out.} I have to stick with 3 ..Father, who is Jehovah..Jesus who is Lord..and the Holy SPirit.
These 3 are one? two? or these three are three different Jesus's??
For me..3 in perfect unity of ONE will..but 3 distinct persons in the God head..again..that is the way my finite understand percieves it..I'm still learning and am not a diehard on this subject..I am a diehard though to say that the trinity did not start with the Catholics..there are other earlier writings that support the trinity..Polycarp is one such person from Revelation's church of Symrna
Man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, both Old and New Testament. Jer.36:6 "which thou hast written from my mouth" yes but you and I know we no longer keep the law..
Here we disagree to some extent, but not as much as you may think. IMO We, Spirit filled and led, born again members in particuliar of the Body, are the only one who have, and can keep the law. The only law I keep is the law of love ...the Royal Commandment..th elaw fulfills the rest. In that law one is dependant on GOd 's Spirit to lead and guide in ALL of your affairs.
Paul declares that the righteous of the law might be fulfilled in us. Fulfilled because the handwritting of ordinances which was against us, (mankind) is now transfered from stone into our hearts and made alive by the infilling of HIS Spirit, giving us the power that Israel never had. The letter killeth, but the Spirit maketh alive.
Do you see any connection with this veiw and what Paul said in Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I Myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Marvel not that ye must be born again! That which is flesh is flesh, and that which is Spirit is Spirit.
Chapter 7 is an example of one that is not following after the SPirit..He is helpless.Romans 8 shows the only way to be a child of GOd.."Through the SPirit." Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. There is the key to keeping the Law of God, dying unto self, and living unto God. Old things pass away, and behold all things become new. A new creation in Christ. Hiers of God and joint heirs with Christ. Bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh. Born of God!
What do you think?
I agree..we are to live and abide in Romans 8 ..for Romans 7 brings condemnation
Chuck; These things are set forth as IMO. Your right, there is much to be gained by discussing Gods word. Often differences occur because of a difference of intrepretations of words. Jesus didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. One of the definations of destroy is to counteract the effect of, or to make of none effect. Jesus said he didn't come to do this, but to fulfil. A definition of fulfil is; carry out, to do, or perform, obey, finish, complete, serve a purpose.
IMO what Jesus was saying is, I didn't come to make the law of none effect, but make a way wherein we are now able to keep the law. Now the righteousness of the law,which Israel could not obtain to, is fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh, but in the Spirit.
This isn't about "I'm right and you are wrong", It's about my ideas and where I often come from. I'm sure others are wondering the same things as I am not locked into traditionally following a man, or doctrine without what I deemto bescriptural truth.
This isn't about "I'm right and you are wrong", It's about my ideas and where I often come from. I'm sure others are wondering the same things as I am not locked into traditionally following a man, or doctrine without what I deemto bescriptural truth.
Me and you both..I was a thorn in the professors side at Bible college because I just don't adopt any old theology..I get mine from study and prayer and bouncing scriptures off of friends like we do on here.
Hello again Snooky. I was just reading your comments and don't really understand all you are saying. Do you keep all of the 613 laws or just pick you ones you like? I still think we have to separate what was for the nation of Israel and what was for us as gentiles.
To Snooky...
