Thinking out loud

[Snooky]

The Just shall live by faith.
Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Without faith it is impossible to please him.

I never met any of the following men. I don't recall even seeing a picture of Billy Cole, but I was told he was on the chubby side.
The story told was that Billy Cole, T.L. Osborn, and Wm. Brannum were dining together. The conversation got around to the move and power of God. Bro Brannum and Bro Osborn said that they must continually fast in order to see God manifest himself in their meetings, while Bro Cole seemed to fast little and was asked what his secret was. Bro Cole reportledly said, "Only believe bretheren, only belive".

Prayer, fasting, ect. are works that we must do. Does the lack of works, result in unbelief and sin?
Or does abiding sin and unbelief result in the lack of good works?

I have often seen one condemn others because they don't maintain the same amountworks as he, or she maintains. Is the amount of works governed by the measure of the gift of grace given the individual? Is there a relationship between the amount of good works, grace, and faith, and the manifestation of the power of God displayed?

What is your thoughts?

[PastorJim08]

Snooky,


(QUOTE)
Or does abiding sin and unbelief result in the lack of good works?Bingo!! I don't think any discussion of faith and works is complete without consideration of James 2:18-24
18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.
19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that"”and shudder.
20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"[e] and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

I think our works are the effect of faith, not the cause. You can have works without faith but if you have real faith, I don't see how you can't have some works to go along with it.

Blessings.....Pastorjim

[Snooky]

Very good reply as always Pastor. I am in agreement with you, but was wondering why some great men do not seem to have to follow the same regiment as others, yet seem to sometimes be usedin an even greater waythan those of a more strict, sacrificing approach. Why do some have the ability to believe, or have faith, and others don't have that ability. All are given "The measure" of faith. Is it something given above and beyond faith required for salvation?

[PastorJim08]

Snooky,

If I understand your question correctly, I think that what we might consider faith in another person, is in actuallity, a gift. I will post some scripture, not to insult your intelligence because I know you have read them, but because I think they might apply to this situation.
ICor. 12:27-31
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire the greater gifts.

Now sometimes we see those who don't seem to have much faith seemingly working miracles. Insomecases the following passage might apply.
Rom 11:29-30
29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.

I think it's a fine line that exists between what God wants to do and how much of His purpose depends on the faith of any individule. Sometimes, and I'm not trying to establish doctrine with this statement, I think prayer and faith are really about us. If the scripture says that "God knows what we have need of before we ask", then why pray at all? I believe it is to increase our reliance on, and our faith in God, as we see our prayers answered. Here is another pasage that I think deals with this subject.
Rom 12:3-8
3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. 4 Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5 so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. 7 If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8 if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully. I will be interested to hear your conclusions.

Blessings.....Pastorjim

[Kosherboy]

Saved By Faith Judge by deeds;

Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
Romans 2:6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:

[Snooky]

I think we are pretty much on the same page here. IMO the measure of faith, and a gift of faith are two different things. Also IMO prayer and fasting isn't a means of forcing God to act in our behalf. Rather it serves to prepare ourselves for available service in his Kingdom. Just as some peoplerequires more effort to become and remain in top physical condition, so is it in the Spiritual Realm. It may be a huge mistake in judgement for one to cast suspicion upon anothers walk with God because he doesn't require the same amount of effort to abtain an equal amount of use from God. Each has his own talents and abilities.
Is it possible to miss being used of God because we judge ourself as unworthy because we are trusting in works and not the gift of God? Deeming ourselves unworthy according to OUR standard of works.
Am I making any sense?

[Kosherboy]

Makes perfect sense to me, some have to work harder to get Closer to God.