Much has been said to condemn the common practice of belonging to an established congregation of believers. At the same time the encouraging of believers to leave the evil "church" system with its corruption is encouraged. Without quoting a lot of scripture to support, or comdemn, let's just ask a couple of simple questions and concider an example or two before joining a campaign for or against organization of a group.
First let me say that anything that carnal men get involved in will suffer to some degree. The question is do we totally discard anything because of the failure of a couple of bad apples.
We pray and don't see a ready answer, do we discard prayer?
We give to a needy family and the parents use our giving to obtain durgs, tobacco, alchol, ect. Do we close our bowels of compassion and stop giving as God has commaned us to do?
The music is too loud, Do we ban music from the church?
A minister wastes the resources of the church. Do we ban the ministry from our midst?
From a different view, the church is given commandments and a commission to;
1. Preach the gospel to all the world.
can a couple at home fulfill the commision?
2. The church is to make disciples of those who are converted.
Again, can one or two sit in their living room and fulfill the command?
3. neglect not the widows and orphans.
How is this done alone.
I guess my question comes down to this, Does staying home and avoiding an organized congregation have the means to function and fulfill the commandments left to the believers.
Without faith it is impossible to please God. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. How shall they hear without a preacher, and how shall he preach except he be sent.
A family should have devotions, bible reading and study, ect. The husband should serve as a priest unto his family, but does that replace the need for a church?, For a Ministry? Or is it an escape from responsability?
Does the bible support the idea of seperation from the rest of the body of Christ?
Didn't read but can't wait till we get into this brother Snooky,
Honestly brother..after I read all the post lately..I think I'm the only one who does this.We just don't haphazardly do 'Church'
no sir..it's at a set time..
a set portion is taken off the top of our checks and given to missions..
I sing and play the guitar as we worshipp.
Aaron reads a Psalm
Lyn prepares commuion
and I pray and get ready a chapter..always one of the gospels and we chew each verse up good.
finish in prayer.
Generally takes 45 -60 minutes
We start sharp at 6:00AM ...
I haven't read your post yet..but will my friend..
My sons just showed up for food and monopoly..
Will get back later today,
your friend,
Chuk7
Ok Snooky babe..please excuse the powerful meds I'm on..[8D]
Love ya man..
OK Let's get started..I'll be green you can be black
Much has been said to condemn the common practice of belonging to an established congregation of believers. OK whoa baby...not from me..this here reply is from Chucky 7 only..I'm not a rebellious zealot..I'm a gun shy God fearing hermit..[8D]
At the same time the encouraging of believers to leave the evil "church" system with its corruption is encouraged. ok again..maybe I shouldn't even be replying here..Chuck 7 loves the organized church that was founded way back right after Christ left planet earth..when 120 met in the Upper Room as instructed by Jesus Himself..Without quoting a lot of scripture to support, or comdemn, let's just ask a couple of simple questions and concider an example or two before joining a campaign for or against organization of a group. amen..let's do this..Snooker baby[8D] First let me say that anything that carnal men get involved in will suffer to some degree.DARN RIGHT!!!and some of us have been victims to real hurtful church stuff.THAT I fail to support..rather I give my BIG offerning to those on the front lines in China, Sudan and Vietnam...where folks are being very real..even unto death..They are not playing a game..I refuse to support a political scratch my back and I'll scratch your type feel good church..Whe pastors start following Christ..I'll support them..sorry..little hyper there[&:]
The question is do we totally discard anything because of the failure of a couple of bad apples. good point brother Snooker..that's why I still look.I know God has some genuine pastors out there..trouble is..most are our over seas missonairies We pray and don't see a ready answer, do we discard prayer? no brother snookhey stop talking down Snook we are brothers here not a pre K class..
We give to a needy family and the parents use our giving to obtain durgs, tobacco, alchol, ect. Do we close our bowels of compassion and stop giving as God has commaned us to do? Absolutely not..I would love to boast of how I help folks but i won't..but when I see a need my man..I give..like I'm sure ALL of you do..that's because God's love is in our hearts. The music is too loud, Do we ban music from the church? No I opened up my Bible and silently read it.."I bare all things for the sake of the elect.2 Tim.2
A minister wastes the resources of the church. Do we ban the ministry from our midst? Maybe //maybe not..depends..I value my hard earned check and I want the most bang fo rmy buck..
From a different view, the church is given commandments and a commission to;
1. Preach the gospel to all the world.
can a couple at home fulfill the commision? Yes ..we have hook ups..Honestly..we give more to missions than most churches do..I'll bet ya..and I have statements..
2. The church is to make disciples of those who are converted.
Again, can one or two sit in their living room and fulfill the command? Yes..God annoints each meeting of ours..I will share what God God gave us this Wed.on here about 'Self-righteousness..'GOOD stuff. 3. neglect not the widows and orphans.
How is this done alone. We adopted an orphan..
I guess my question comes down to this, Does staying home and avoiding an organized congregation have the means to function and fulfill the commandments left to the believers. Yes..BUT when I find a church I can whole heartedly support..I'll commit myself..
Without faith it is impossible to please God. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. How shall they hear without a preacher, and how shall he preach except he be sent. I am a preacher and have a degree..Fact Peter says "We are all high priest.." A family should have devotions, bible reading and study, ect. The husband should serve as a priest unto his family, but does that replace the need for a church?, For a Ministry? Or is it an escape from responsability? I answered above..
Does the bible support the idea of seperation from the rest of the body of Christ? Yes..it worked for the Pilgrims,,,for present persecuted China and Sudan homes.. Thanks fo rthe opportunity to express my faiht Snooky, Love ya, C7
You can have a family, at home type church, absolutely and discover things you never would in organized churches.
You can be a giver to the people who need it without organized religion.
IMO you need to have YOUR life right with God before you try and "teach" others - and that is why organized religion is a failure by and large. Those "leading" aren't living the life they're teaching. big problem there
Chuck, You are not he only one with this approach to home church. Others have been a little free with the "evil organized church" in recent posts. You have not taken it to that level, for which I am glad to admit.
However your reply sends mixed messages; lets look at some things without getting upset. We know what the other believes, but for clairifaction for others who are reading and may be confused.
We just don't haphazardly do 'Church' .
Good, BUT what are you doing that shouldn't be done on aregular basis within a traditional, faithful, member of an orginized group? Other than missing the blessings of God, and not feeding your faith?
A gun shy, God fearing hermit. Regardless of what we call ourselves, It is still the whole duty of man to fear God AND keep his commandments. Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together as the manner (custom, practice) of some is.
All have suffered from bad experiences, Jesus, all the Apostles, the Prophets, but they stayed the course. Therefore endure hardness as a good soldier and endue unto the end.
I am afraid that if one cannot find a good man of God locally, he would soon find out that those "Good Pastors" from afar off, are only flesh and blood also.
Giving to the needy, down and out, ect. again is only what a church member would do, in addition to his responsability to the Church.
What about bringing "into the storehouse"?
You admit to having "hook-ups" through which you channel some finances. This is organization, pure and simple. That lets me know that you are not anti organizational entirely, but seem to have a need to "control" the finances. Does that carry over into other areas of service?
The music is to loud, so we refuse to worship and read the bible instead? Quench not the Spirit of God. Again, is this a need to control? To dictate how, how much, how long, ect. ect.
Brother Chuck, I sincerely hope that you will find that church which is worthy of your support soon. IMO both you, your lovely wife and family are missing some of lifes greatest blessings by shunning the responsabilities of a home church.
1. Christ organized the church. Ephesians 4:11-14
2. The true church must bear the name of Jesus Christ. Ephesians 5:23
3. The true church mast have a foundation of Apostles and Prophets. Ephesians 2:19-20
4. The true church must have the same organization as Christs church. Ephesians 4:11-14
5. The true church must claim divine authority. Hebrews 5:4-10
6. The true church must have no paid ministry. Isaiah 45:13 1 Peter 5:2
7. The true church must baptize by immersion. Matthew 3:13-16
8. The true church must bestow the GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST by the laying on of hands. Acts 8:14-17
9. The true church must practice divine healing. Mark 3:14-15
10. The true church must teach that God and Jesus Christ are separate and distinct individuals. John 17:11 John 20:17
11. The true church must teach that God and Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bones. Luke 24:34-39 Acts 1: 9-11
12. The officers must be called by God. Hebrew 5:4 Exodus 28:1 Exodus 40:13-16
13. The true church must claim revelation from God. Amos 3:7
14. The true church must be a missionary church. Matthew 28:19-20
15. The true church must be a restored church. Acts 3:19-20
16. The true church must practice baptism for the dead. 1 Corinthians 15:19 & 19
17. By their fruits ye shall know them. Matthew 7:20
I came across this and I am looking into this a little more carefully. Is there really a church out there that teaches all of this?
Snooky Baby..good to see ya replying ..I thought you fogot about me..been waiting for 45 minutes.. Again..I'm green ..your black
Chuck, You are not he only one with this approach to home church. Others have been a little free with the "evil organized church" in recent posts. You have not taken it to that level, for which I am glad to admit. and I never will for Christ's sake..He paid dearly for the church ..I will never take it to that level..that is a cold level.. However your reply sends mixed messages; lets look at some things without getting upset.ok..you got a deal..We know what the other believes, but for clairifaction for others who are reading and may be confused.
We just don't haphazardly do 'Church' .
Good, BUT what are you doing that shouldn't be done on aregular basis within a traditional, faithful, member of an orginized group? Other than missing the blessings of God, and not feeding your faith?
OH SNOOOKY..[&o][&o][&o]you've quenched my Spirit my man..I'm crumbled..I don't want ot boast because it puts me in jeopardy of losing my blessing but if you must insist..I praise HIm thoughout the day..He inhabits those praises..I just gave a parent of one of my students 700.00 a couple of weeks ago to paya widows electric bill..her tears of joy and the anointing was over whelming..I get up and pray to the east as directied in Psalms alot in which we have a prayer room in our home..and I practive only talking at breakfast and dinner so that I may worship God with my whole mind and heart..I do not talk the rest of the day in my home..As Jesus said, I only speak that which I 'v eheard from the Father ..these are not good works to earn favor..these are done because I love God..and inHim only is life..I hate talking like this but Jesus and He is my all in all the only true person who loves any of us.He's my best friend..
A gun shy, God fearing hermit. Regardless of what we call ourselves, It is still the whole duty of man to fear God AND keep his commandments. Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together as the manner (custom, practice) of some is. DO you know the context of that Hebrews 10 verse my friend..It was a warning from Paul as the church had folks going apostate..They were scared..They were not ;azy Christians..as Paul later says "You have not yet resisted unto blood." Don't forget Snook..I've magored in Bible.and like you I know the author of the Book.
All have suffered from bad experiences, Jesus, all the Apostles, the Prophets, but they stayed the course. NO SIR...often times Jesus wiped the dust off His feet and moved on.He never stayed where He wasn't wanted..and He "Took His peace with Him."
Therefore endure hardness as a good soldier and endue unto the end. Yes...there is a place for enduring as well as aplace for shaking the dust..God will let each know
I am afraid that if one cannot find a good man of God locally, he would soon find out that those "Good Pastors" from afar off, are only flesh and blood also. NOt me.."His sheep know His voice and WILL not follow th evoice of a stranger."
Giving to the needy, down and out, ect. again is only what a church member would do, in addition to his responsability to the Church.
What about bringing "into the storehouse"?
[align=left]The people of God are the storehouse..I give so much..1000s actually..and when I see a need I give on top of that.
You admit to having "hook-ups" through which you channel some finances. Voice of the Marytrs..and David WIlkerson Inner Street Ministries..This is organization, pure and simple. That lets me know that you are not anti organizational entirely, no I'm not..I'd love to find a church to get involved with ..I've preached in 3 local churches and have held very good positions..but seem to have a need to "control" the finances.WHAT...are you serious..that statement makes me sick..my wife has to put the reins on me on giving..I love to give.Does that carry over into other areas of service? You misjudged me Snook..but it doesn't bother me..I'm good to night.[/align][align=left]The real reason..I don't like being manipulated by men or scammed..I've tasted the real and men can't fool me. The music is to loud, so we refuse to worship and read the bible instead? Quench not the Spirit of God. Again, is this a need to control? To dictate how, how much, how long, ect. ect. [/align][align=left]No Chuck7 smiled and kept my mouth shut..i lifted my hands for a while but certianly reading God's Word is not quenching the Spirit..
Brother Chuck, I sincerely hope that you will find that church which is worthy of your support soon. IMO both you, your lovely wife and family are missing some of lifes greatest blessings by shunning the responsabilities of a home church. [/align][align=left]Thanks Snooky[/align][align=left]I plan to go back Sunday..with only good thoughts toward the pastor.[/align][align=right]
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I think both types of churches can work, My wife are on our fourth establishedchurch in in 12 years. Something always seems to happen, I think our second church may have damaged our children a bit. i think we waited a little to long before leaving ,thinking things would change but didn,t. our third church wonderful pastor all credit went to God, he always turned to the bible and God for answers to everything. He has since left,alot of man laws on that churches books. Now it brings us to our Fourth church ,wonderful church learning, great fellowship, becoming involved, Sunday the pastor and a decon confronted us about membership, a little afraid have been praying about what to do. Just hope this church doesn't turn sour but I have to remember its made up of sinners. My father and father in law don't go to an established church because of this I think you have to keep that thought on the back burner to deal with some issues that come up. Sorry to ramble ,hope I didn't get off the subject to much. Also would appreiciate any prayers dealing with weather joining this church is Gods plan for my wife and I
Chuck, I hope you fall in love with this church. I cannot condemn any of the good works that you do. I don't doubt the blessing you receive. However I fail to see anything done that should not be doneby a member of an established church. I do see several areas of scriptural blessingsthat are being missed from the lack of an established church family with which to interact. Often the things that we neglect to do, are worse than those things which wewilfully commit.
I think I have a fair understanding of the book of Hebrews, however I didn't major in theology, but rather kneeology. Thats the only way for some of us uneducated ones to receive anything from God. If I hungered and thirsted more for him and his word, I would undoubtedly receive greater revelations and knowledge.
Jesus shaking the dust off his sandels only proves that he stayed the course. He didn't change his plan or alter his journey at all. He continued straight to calvary inspite of the trials and temptations. He didn't quit going to the temple anywhere, or time during the 33+ years of his physical life here. John was the only one of the twelve to die a natural death, and they tried to kill him, but not one was able to be seperated from their mission and calling.
One can give if they are assured "their" money is going where they choose for it to go. But the same one can't give and trust someone else to decide where is needs to be sent. Therefore the "storehouse" reference. There is a difference in seeing that "MY" money goes here, or there, and simply saying, "its Gods money" and give it in faith, in trust, that God will take care of it after it leaves my hand. Our responsibility is to give, not to determine the destination or usage of that which is given. The receiver of the finances is the steward who will answer, not the giver.
What is the meaning of the scripture "one will put a thousand to flight, and two will put ten thousand to flight, teaching us? What is meant by a two fold cord is not easily broken? Is the bible teaching us to be "hermits", or come together as soldiers to fight the good fight of faith. Where no vision is, the people perish. What is the vision of a one family, home church? How limited are the resorces? The labours are already few. The Kingdom suffers this very minute because of a lack of labours together in his vinyard.
descipleship isn't just meeting people, going to church with them, sending a Christmas or birthday card. Making disciples as the scripture commands means taking them under your wing and making one your best buddy. Take him hunting and fishing, and talk about the doctrines as you spend time together. Have them over a cookout which includes some doctrinal discussions. You are careful to always be a good example of a christian so they see and learn from your example what it means to live for God. You share your religious books with then, you have good gospel music available, ect. Making disiples is much more than inviting one to church and them putting them right back into the same sinful inviorment and letting them sink back in the mire.
Can a couple of good folks who "home church" offer a place for the drug addict to "get clean"? Yes, if God does an instant, total deliverance with no withdrawal. Also if he has very deep pockets and can go without sleep for several days at a time. Otherwise you must send them to an organized church with enough manpower and finances to offer a faith based "Victory Home". Our "Victory home" officially opens May 8th. 90 days of prayer, praise, bible study and preaching. Totally faith based, no govt. handouts, no charge to the addict, free housing, meals, bed, ect. All is required if that they find a way to Twin Falls, Idaho. A home church cannot begin to provide the nessary care required. It takes an organized church. After the "Victory Home" there is another service for the familys can go and be taught how to function as a family unit, How to look for and keep employment, manage finances, balance the check book, ect. A place to live until they get back on their feet.
Those who want to lump all organized churches as "evil" are just looking for any excuse to not obey God. It is easier to blame others than to except responsability for their own shortcomings.
Romans 8:33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
established churches VS home church
I'll be green you can be black
hey stop talking down Snook we are brothers here not a pre K class..
