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Old 01-15-2009, 07:43 AM   #1
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Default Pope Peter??

Do You Catholics read the Bible to see if it substantiates your churches claim that Peter was the first Pope? Or do you just trust that they are telling you the truth. For those of you who have not bothered investigating on your own I offer a brief study for you.

1. Peters commission was to the Jews NOT the Gentiles...
"The gospel of the CIRCUMCISION was unto Peter; (For He that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles" (Gal. 2:7-8). Peter was the Aposle to the circumsized, Paul was the Apostle to the uncircumsized. It was Paul that wrote the Epistle to the Romans, not Peter.

"And when James, Cephas [Peter], and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace [i.e., the gift or office] that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision" (Gal. 2:9)


And again here Paul mentions that it is he that is Apostle to the Gentiles.. II Timothy 1:11: "Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles." Nowhere in the NT is Peter mentioned as Apostle to the Gentiles.

2. Paul even directly tells the Roman Gentiles he was their Apostle.

"I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable" (Rom. 15:16).

3. Paul specifically mentions that he NOT Peter would establish the Church at Rome.
"I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established" (Rom. 1:11).
Amazingly enough the Cathlolics will try and tell you that the church had been established ten years prior to this epistle! Pure nonsense in my opinion. It should be coming pretty obvious that Peter had nothing to do with any church at Rome let alone a Catholic church.

4. Paul clearly states he would never build upon another mans foundation, yet we see from the above verses he did want to establish a chuch at Rome.

"Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, LEST I SHOULD BUILD UPON ANOTHER MAN"™S FOUNDATION"(Rom. 15:20). Does anyone really think Paul would mention this if Peter had actually established the church at Rome ten years prior??

5. When Paul finishes his letter to the Romans he greets 28 different people. Funny how he does NOT mention Peter. Seeing how Paul wrote the epistle about AD 55 it certainly seems odd. Unless of course Peter was not there.

6. When Paul finally arrived at Rome, the first thing he did was to summon "the chief of the Jews together" (Acts 28:17) to whom he "expounded and testified the kingdom of God" (Verse 23). But what is amazing is that these chief Jewish elders claimed they knew very little even about the basic teachings of Christ. All they knew was that "˜"˜as concerning this sect, we know that everywhere it is spoken against" (Verse 22). Now how can these Jews know so little if Peter (a very partisian Jew) had been there preaching for fourteen long years?? Because Peter was not in Rome is the only logical answer.

7. Paul lived in his own hired house in Rome for two years. He wrote Epistles to the Ephesians, the Philippians, the Colossians, Philemon, and to the Hebrews. And while Paul mentions others as being in Rome during that period, he nowhere mentions Peter. The obvious reason is -- the Apostle to the circumcision wasn"™t there

8. Four years later (about 65 A.D.), Paul was sent back a prisoner to Rome. He had appeared before the throne of Caesar and was sentenced to die. Paul describes this situation in II Timothy. Regarding his trial, note what Paul said in II Timothy 4:16. "At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men [in Rome] forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge." This means, if we believe the Catholics, that Peter forsook Paul, for they tell us Peter was very much present at Rome during this time! To believe that Peter was in Rome during Paul"™s trial takes quite a stretch of the imagination.

9. Paul again tells us Peter was not there in AD 65. "Only Luke is with me" (II Tim. 4:11). So Paul wrote to Rome, and even wrote six epistles from Rome all the while not once mentioning Peter. Pretty amazing since the Catholic church would have you believe Peter was there all the while founding and leading the church there!!

10 Peters death foretold by Jesus. (John 21:18-19.) "œ. When you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go."

11. Where than was Peter, if not in Rome?
45 AD Peter was cast into prison at Jerusalem. (Acts12:3,4).
49 AD Still in Jersualem at the Jerusalem council.
51 AD Peter is in Antioch Syria in a dispute with Paul. Why? Because Peter would not sit or eat with Gentiles.
65 AD Peter is in Babylon amongst the Jews. (1Peter 5:13) (Remember Peter was Apostle to the CIRCUMCISED).

What will you believe, What the Word of God tells you or what mortal man tells you. Further proof that Peter was not the first Pope is found in Gal. 1:6. Peter would hold fast to the Gospel that was preached. He would not change the gospel as catholics have done.

"I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!"

Don't be decieved into believing anyone or anything can alter the word of God. Ask your self this.. Why would God give us and preserve for us his Holy word in the Bible, only later to have it altered and subverted? Of course he would not do that as we can see by the scripture.
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Old 01-15-2009, 08:58 AM   #2
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Default RE: Pope Peter??

An interesting montage. You might find Eusebius' The History of the Church an interesting and informative read.

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Old 01-15-2009, 10:35 AM   #3
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Default RE: Pope Peter??

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ORIGINAL: daddyslittlegirl

An interesting montage. You might find Eusebius' The History of the Church an interesting and informative read.

May The Sheep Be With You
you may find, The Trail of Blood an interesting read .... that is the TRUE history of Christ's church ...not Catholic dogma
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Old 01-15-2009, 10:56 AM   #4
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Default RE: Pope Peter??

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ORIGINAL: PreacherTony

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An interesting montage. You might find Eusebius' The History of the Church an interesting and informative read.

May The Sheep Be With You
you may find, The Trail of Blood an interesting read .... that is the TRUE history of Christ's church ...not Catholic dogma
I looked it up on Amazon.com. It's just more Catholic bashing. And credibility disappears like smoke when a claim is made that the Baptist Church existed back then. Right or wrong, good or evil, the Catholic Church was the only thing going (okay there was the occasional "heresy")until a few hundred years ago. Eusebius' book is apparently the only real history of the early church. The documents, etc. on which he relied no longer exist. Eusebius gets low grades for writing style but high marks for accuracy. I highly recommend it to you. You won't really learn anything by reading Catholic bashing pamphlets or searching for stuff in the catechism with which you disagree. I can pretty much assume, at this point,that you disagree with most Catholic teachings so you don't really need to tell me.

May The Sheep Be With You


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I heard Jesus He drank wine and I bet we'd get along just fine.

He could calm a storm and heal the blind and

I bet He'd understand a heart like mine.

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Old 01-15-2009, 11:00 AM   #5
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Default RE: Pope Peter??

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ORIGINAL: daddyslittlegirl

Quote:
ORIGINAL: PreacherTony

Quote:
ORIGINAL: daddyslittlegirl

An interesting montage. You might find Eusebius' The History of the Church an interesting and informative read.

May The Sheep Be With You
you may find, The Trail of Blood an interesting read .... that is the TRUE history of Christ's church ...not Catholic dogma
I looked it up on Amazon.com. It's just more Catholic bashing. And credibility disappears like smoke when a claim is made that the Baptist Church existed back then. Right or wrong, good or evil, the Catholic Church was the only thing going (okay there was the occasional "heresy")until a few hundred years ago. Eusebius' book is apparently the only real history of the early church. The documents, etc. on which he relied no longer exist. Eusebius gets low grades for writing style but high marks for accuracy. I highly recommend it to you. You won't really learn anything by reading Catholic bashing pamphlets or searching for stuff in the catechism with which you disagree. I can pretty much assume, at this point,that you disagree with most Catholic teachings so you don't really need to tell me.

May The Sheep Be With You

it's true history, most of it CAME from catholic writings and the writings of the other enemies of the cross ..... your pope just apologised for some of the atrocities commited by the RCC ......
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Old 01-15-2009, 12:27 PM   #6
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Default RE: Pope Peter??

Pope Kisses Koran
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Old 01-15-2009, 12:41 PM   #7
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Default RE: Pope Peter??

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Pope Kisses Koran
He was lonely!!. Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
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Old 01-15-2009, 02:05 PM   #8
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Default RE: Pope Peter??

DLG, I hate to reply at the moment as it seems to be your turn to be the bad person. If I say too much, I may be the focus of the pack again---O'well, that is life it seems.
I have to disagree with your statement here.

Right or wrong, good or evil, the Catholic Church was the only thing going (okay there was the occasional "heresy")until a few hundred years ago. Eusebius' book is apparently the only real history of the early church.

You know that I am what is commonly refered to as a cult, (the occasional heresy of only one God VS the Trinity). The only real history of the early church isn't Eusebius, it is The Acts of The Apostles. Acts records the Oneness heresy, (as it came to be known about 300 years later) was the only thing going. The second century saw the development of the Trinity doctrine which became the embro from which sprang the RCC in the 3rd century. The doctrine of the Trinity however has undergone some "evolution" since its conception. It is also true that when groups of disgruntle catholics splintered away from the RCC they all took the doctrine of the Trinity along with them.
To say that the Baptist Church was around at that time, is however as biblical as saying that the RCC was the only thing going. Neither were the only thing going, but disciples of John were recorded in Acts 19, but no record of Peters disciples is found anywhere. And Johns desciples were rebaptized by Paul in the Name of The Lord Jesus, as there is salvation in none other name. In reading the historical account, according to scripture, "The occasional heresy", is the oldest church group known, and was birthed on the day of Pentecost as prophesied in the feast days of Israel.
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Old 01-15-2009, 02:33 PM   #9
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Default RE: Pope Peter??

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DLG, I hate to reply at the moment as it seems to be your turn to be the bad person. If I say too much, I may be the focus of the pack again---O'well, that is life it seems.
I have to disagree with your statement here.

Right or wrong, good or evil, the Catholic Church was the only thing going (okay there was the occasional "heresy")until a few hundred years ago. Eusebius' book is apparently the only real history of the early church.

You know that I am what is commonly refered to as a cult, (the occasional heresy of only one God VS the Trinity). The only real history of the early church isn't Eusebius, it is The Acts of The Apostles. Acts records the Oneness heresy, (as it came to be known about 300 years later) was the only thing going. The second century saw the development of the Trinity doctrine which became the embro from which sprang the RCC in the 3rd century. The doctrine of the Trinity however has undergone some "evolution" since its conception. It is also true that when groups of disgruntle catholics splintered away from the RCC they all took the doctrine of the Trinity along with them.
To say that the Baptist Church was around at that time, is however as biblical as saying that the RCC was the only thing going. Neither were the only thing going, but disciples of John were recorded in Acts 19, but no record of Peters disciples is found anywhere. And Johns desciples were rebaptized by Paul in the Name of The Lord Jesus, as there is salvation in none other name. In reading the historical account, according to scripture, "The occasional heresy", is the oldest church group known, and was birthed on the day of Pentecost as prophesied in the feast days of Israel.
Acts ends fairly early. Eusebius takes us up to the time of Constantine.

And what we now call the Roman Catholic Church was the only thing going at the time, except for that occasional "heresy." One may approve or disapprove of what we now call the RCC became, but the fact remains that during that time it was the only game in town.

People claim that they recreated the original church at the time of the Reformation or maybe hundreds of years later. Well we disagree on that.

What I think is a bit inappropriate is all the Catholic bashing. If you don't accept the teachings of the Catholic Church, hey, fine. Lot's of people don't. Even lots of people who call themselves Catholics don't.

But those of us who call ourselves Christians all share a basic belief in Christ and his redemption. That should be what's important. I would think that folks could share some of the joy that I (and my mom) became believing Christians all because of a little ice cream cone. (Moose tracks flavor.)

May The Sheep Be With You
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Proud parents of our own "Daddy's Little Girls"

I heard Jesus He drank wine and I bet we'd get along just fine.

He could calm a storm and heal the blind and

I bet He'd understand a heart like mine.

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Old 01-15-2009, 03:41 PM   #10
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Default RE: Pope Peter??

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Do You Catholics read the Bible to see if it substantiates your churches claim that Peter was the first Pope? Or do you just trust that they are telling you the truth.
do you protestants read the GOSPEL? "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church". Peter is mentioned more times in the Gospel than all the other disciples combined. Jesus' most intimate conversations are with Peter.
Paul was the Apostle to the gentiles because he was chosen to be. Why did God give this job to paul & not Peter? I'm not God, so I can't rightly say. In Acts, it was revealed to Peter in a vision to include the gentiles in the Church. Peter obviously couldn't be Apostle to both, not even the Pope can be in two places at once.

When you investigate most of the "strange" things that Catholics believe, you will find at the root the Gospel. One needs to look at these things through the prism of the Church in order to see them. If that's not your way, then fine. Leave "us Catholics" to it, then.
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