In my Bible John 3:16 calls Jesus the only begotten Son of God. Some folk tho say that He is the eternal Son . . . .even tho the Bible never uses this term and it is a concept that contradicts Scripture.
We know that the word begotten is a form of the verb beget . . .and it means to procreate, father, or to sire. So begotten indicates a definite point in time . .the point that conception took place.
The begetter (father) always must come before the begotten (offspring). There is a time that the begetter exists but the begotten is not yet in existence, just as there is a point in time when the act of begetting takes place. If not, then the word begotten and Son each contradict the word eternal as applied to the Son of God.
This is a real good study that unfolds many truths as one searches the Scriptures. See, the title "Son of God" refers to the humanity of Jesus . . .this humanity was begotten and was born in Bethleham . . . .without a doubt this was the beginning of the humanity of Christ.
There is a correctness in speaking of eternal existance it the past, present, and future, . . . but only in relation to God. Son of God refers to humanity . . .or God manifest in humanity, the idea of an eternal Son is not Bible as the Son of God had a beginning.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Are we talking about Yeshua the Man or Yeshua THE Spirit ?
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The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. Zephaniah 1:14
פרץ
Are we talking about Yeshua the Man or Yeshua THE Spirit ?
Thanks Alex . . .perfect question. At this point I have mostly mentioned Yeshua the man . . .who had a beginning. We both know that Yeshua the Spirit is eternal, the Almighty God.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
**** The begetter (father) always must come before the begotten (offspring). There is a time that the begetter exists but the begotten is not yet in existence, just as there is a point in time when the act of begetting takes place. If not, then the word begotten and Son each contradict the word eternal as applied to the Son of God.
This was specifically rejected as a heresy by the early Christians. It's called Arianism. You must understand that God is one, continuous act that never changes. Essentially, the Son is the Father's total expression of himself (which is why Jesus could claim that having seen him means one has seen the Father). The outpouring itself is endless and has no beginning.
What would be good for you to do is to study the Arian heresy and the council of Nicea which refuted it.
Your assuming that I hav'nt studied Arius or the Council of Nicea . . .such is not the case. In actuality, you probably come closer to believing as Arius did than I do.
Arius wanted to preserve the oneness of God (which I see many trinity folk try to do), and yet he wanted to proclaim the independent personality of the Logos. He did teach that Christ was a created being . . .a divine being, but not of the same essence as the Father and not co equal with the Father. Basically , to Arius Christ was a demigod.
So in all actuality Arius taught a new form of polytheism. Arius was not a oneness believer (which is what I consider myself), and I strongly reject any form of Arianism.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Thank you for the clarification. You still haven't addressed the other aspects of the argument, though. I put a case up in my response to snooky on the other related thread. you might glance at it if you're interested.
Edit: After looking at your original post, why do you say begetting can't be eternal? It's actually quite simple if the begetting is outside of time. That's what eternality is. There is no beginning or end because they are tied to time. In eternity, time does not exist.
Sure I'll respond, but post your point here as I don't want to hyjack that particular thread. Mind you tho . . .I'm only going to invest just so much time on the computer so lets discuss a point before we move on to the next point and not bombard each other with diversions.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Begotten Or Eternal Son ?
Thanks Alex . . .perfect question. At this point I have mostly mentioned Yeshua the man . . .who had a beginning. We both know that Yeshua the Spirit is eternal, the Almighty God.
