God's Wonderful Plan

[5pointCal]

I've been asked to expound my position on the following statements:

motor said (I copied and pasted from a previous thread):

We are so important to God that He asks us to have a personel relatiinship with Him..the Bible tells us that God has a wonderful purpose for achand everyone of us..


To which I replied:

For sake of discussion, could you tell me where in the Bible it says this? Sounds like the man-centered, romantic psuedo-gospel that the American church is built upon. Sinking sand, brother.


I'm going to post what came to mind in reponse to motor's statement and then welcome any further discussion.

My position:

I don't find in the Bible where we are so important to God that He asks us to have a personal relationship with Him, or that God has a wonderful purpose for each and every one of us. Instead I see God's plan of creation and redemption stemming from His love for His holy name and His desire to display to the world just what a great, powerful, wonderful, loving, righteous and just God He is. And He has not invited men to take Him up on His offer, He has commanded all men everywhere to repent of their sins against Him and believe the Gospel (Act 17:30, 31). Those who believe will be saved, those who don't will perish (Mark 16:16).

Check out Ezekiel 36:16 - 37

16 The word of the LORD came to me: 17(AJ) "Son of man, when the house of Israel lived in their own land,(AK) they defiled it by their ways and their deeds. Their ways before me were(AL) like the uncleanness of a woman in her menstrual impurity. 18So(AM) I poured out my wrath upon them(AN) for the blood that they had shed in the land, for the idols(AO) with which they had defiled it. 19(AP) I scattered them among the nations, and they were dispersed through the countries.(AQ) In accordance with their ways and their deeds I judged them. 20But when they came to the nations, wherever they came,(AR) they profaned my holy name, in that people said of them, 'These are the people of the LORD, and yet they had to go out of his land.' 21But I had concern(AS) for my holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations to which they came.
I Will Put My Spirit Within You
22"Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord GODAT) It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name,(AU) which you have profaned among the nations to which you came. 23(AV) And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, and which you have profaned among them.(AW) And the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Lord GOD, when through you I vindicate my holiness before their eyes. 24(AX) I will take you(AY) from the nations and gather you from all the countries and(AZ) bring you into your own land. 25(BA) I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from(BB) all your uncleannesses, and(BC) from all your idols(BD) I will cleanse you. 26And I will give you(BE) a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27(BF) And I will put my Spirit within you,(BG) and cause you to walk in my statutes and(BH) be careful to obey my rules.[a] 28(BI) You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and(BJ) you shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29And(BK) I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. And(BL) I will summon the grain and make it abundant and(BM) lay no famine upon you. 30(BN) I will make the fruit of the tree and the increase of the field abundant,(BO) that you may never again suffer the disgrace of famine among the nations. 31Then(BP) you will remember your evil ways, and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves for your iniquities and your abominations. 32(BQ) It is not for your sake that I will act, declares the Lord GOD; let that be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel.
33"Thus says the Lord GOD: On the day that(BR) I cleanse you from all your iniquities,(BS) I will cause the cities to be inhabited, and the waste places shall be rebuilt. 34And the land that was desolate shall be tilled, instead of being the desolation that it was in the sight of all who passed by. 35And they will say, 'This land that was desolate has become like(BT) the garden of Eden, and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.' 36Then(BU) the nations that are left all around you shall know that I am the LORD; I have rebuilt the ruined places and(BV) replanted that which was desolate.(BW) I am the LORD; I have spoken, and I will do it.
37"Thus says the Lord GOD: This also(BX) I will let the house of Israel ask me to do for themBY) to increase their people like(BZ) a flock. 38Like the flock for sacrifices,[b](CA) like the flock at Jerusalem during her appointed feasts, so(CB) shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of people.(CC) Then they will know that I am the LORD."

Here God isannouncing this great work of salvation that He is going to do, and more importantly why He is going to do it.

I will stop here to open up for discussion. It is hard to communicate tone in an online enviornment, so I want to say that I'm coming into this with humility and desire for God to be glorified not only in what is said, but in the spirit in which it is said. Please keep that in mind as we discuss the mysteries of God.

Soli Deo Gloria!

I'm editing this post to add, if anyone would like to discuss this in private, feel free to PM me. Thanks!

[m.t.hands]

God that He asks us to have a personel relatiinship with Him..the Bible tells us that God has a wonderful purpose for achand everyone of us..

for me this verse is telling me my condition, we cannot live out anybody else's salvation, regardless of what we put into it, ultimately they will have to have a relationship with God

John 14:15-17

15. If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give youanother Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17. [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you

in a another post you mentioned

I've experienced Him in my life. And now I go about sharing what I know about Him with others (what I know through His divine revelation, the Bible), in hope that He will reveal Himself to them as well.

to me that seem like a "personnel relation"

BTW, i visited your blog, very nicemy grandson has a game tonight, i will try to keep it in perspective[:-]

[mudhead1s wife]

The book of John is one book of love. What is God, He is love. How do you best express love? Through relationships with one another. We shall love others as God loved us. If we accept God than we love God because the Holy Spirit abides in us and is of God and God is Love.

The bible also says to bring all our cares to Him, whether big or small. Needs or wants. In Matthew he talks about Asking, seeking and knocking.

Furthermore when Adam and Eve were created God walked with them in the garden of Eden. God had a relationship with Moses and talk to Moses several times. And Christ Himself developed hundreds of relationships while here as a man. Look at the relationship with His disciples, was it Peter who was talking to He right before His betrayal and it said He leaned on Jesus breast? He cultivated relationships because He loved the people. Look how He loved the one who betrayed Him. Here is also a verse from Philippians 2
1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort in love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2 Fulfill ye my joy that ye be like minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

1 Corinthians speaks a lot about Spiritual gifts, and Romans has some reference to it also. Each of us has a Spiritual gift, something special God has given us as a gift to help in the spreading of the gospel, the glorifying of Him. We were all created for His glory and His honor. Here is what Isaiah 43:7 says:

Even every one that is called by My name: for I have created him for My Glory, I have formed him yeah I have made him.

Colossians 1:16 says:

For by Him all theings were created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, ordominions, or principalities, of powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him.

And in Revelations4:11 it says

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Are we special? Yes God created us.

Do we each have a purpose? Yes we were createdto honor and glorify His name.

Do we all do that the same? No we are given spiritual gifts, I praise God through many forms one of them is writing. Another is teaching Sunday School with my husband.

Should we have a relationship with Him? Yes, Jesus instructed us to pray to the Father and garnered many relationships while man here.

[Snooky]

God's wonderful plan, would this be a back door entrance to individual predestination from before the world was?

[Dozen Arrows]

Do you have kids of your own? I have two and they are very important to me. Jesus Christ's sacrifice was the perfect example of how important we are to him. Does he need us? No. Does he LOVE us? Absolutely beyond the doubt. It is just that simple. He created us in his own image and he is worthy of our praise. He is THE Father. He is THE Teacher and it is all about him.

Do you pray to the Lord? This may sound like a crazy question, but don't you think that is part of your personal relationship with him? I understand what you are saying. He doesn't need us but we need him. But that has nothing to do with our personal relationship with him because he LOVES us. He doesn't need to seek us. We need to seek him. Therefore, why wouldn't we have a personal relationship with the Father?

If God wanted to be alone, then why would he keep on creating us and why would he have sent his only begotten son so that we may know him better and know what he is all about?

[5pointCal]

Awesome, I love the questions. I have to be in a staff meeting this morning, and it may be evening before I'll be able to concentrate on this thread, but I wanted to let everyone know that I will be responding.

Thank you.

Soli Deo Gloria

[5pointCal]

m.t.

I would agree that salvation is a personal relationship with Christ. But Jesus didn't say, "Please come and have a personal relationship with me" when He began His ministry. He said, "Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand" (Matt. 4). The idea that Jesus ask us to have a personal relationship and has a wonderful plan has been used throughout history to entice sinners to come to Christ for life enhancement. It is to soften the offense of the cross, but in doing so it loses its power. The focus should be on God not man. Does that make sense?

Thank you for visiting my blog and I'm glad you enjoyed it. Sorry that your son's team lost the game, but I'm glad he did well.

mudhead's wife

I agree. I fear that you all are misunderstanding my position. I absolutely affirm that we must have a relationship with Christ. And I completely agree that we are important to Him and that He loves us. But, His love for us is secondary to His love for Himself. And we seem to get that backwards. And God's plan for our lives may not be what we would consider wonderful. Could you tell the Christians in China, India, or the Middle East that God has a wonderful plan for their lives? How about someone who has just been diagnosed with terminal cancer? Of course not. The Gospel call is, "Turn from your sins, and trust in Christ and His finished work on Calvary to save you from God's wrath on Judgement Day." We know that there no better life than one in Christ, but that is not what God said to use to tell people to come to Him. Does that make sense?

Snooky,

I'm not sure I understand your question? Could you explain? Thanks

Dozen Arrows

I have children, and God has taught me more about His love for me through my children than anything else I can think of outside of Scripture. I completely agree with you, too. Again, I'mnot saying that God doesn't want a relationship with us. There is so much scripture that says otherwise. But that is not what we use to call men to Christ. And we can't tell everyone that God has a wonderful plan for their lives because what is wonderful is subjective. Honestly, would you tell a person with terminal cancer, or who just lost a child in a car wreck, that God has or had a wonderful plan for their life? Would we look at the Christians in India who are being slaughtered for Christ sake and say, "Well, God had a wonderful plan for their lives?" No, because what we (humans) perceive as wonderful (especially in America) is not what God knows to be wonderful. Does that make sense?


To all:

Study the whole counsel of God. We must not take only that scriptures that are popular because they tell of the things of God that we like and want to hear. We must take the whole thing, and then we will find out that God is even greater than we first thought.

Read Isaiah, Ezekial, Romans, John. It is astounding! Please, if you have more questions, I welcome them.

In His Grip,

chris

[Dozen Arrows]

"Dozen Arrows

I have children, and God has taught me more about His love for me through my children than anything else I can think of outside of Scripture. I completely agree with you, too. Again, I'mnot saying that God doesn't want a relationship with us. There is so much scripture that says otherwise. But that is not what we use to call men to Christ. And we can't tell everyone that God has a wonderful plan for their lives because what is wonderful is subjective. Honestly, would you tell a person with terminal cancer, or who just lost a child in a car wreck, that God has or had a wonderful plan for their life? Would we look at the Christians in India who are being slaughtered for Christ sake and say, "Well, God had a wonderful plan for their lives?" No, because what we (humans) perceive as wonderful (especially in America) is not what God knows to be wonderful. Does that make sense?"

Well, I rejected an opportunity to join a secret society in order to get a job and I am still unemployed at this point so what does that tell you? Yes, I do have a personal relationship with the Lord and I will follow him all the way to the cross.

[5pointCal]

Dozen Arrows,

Brother, I'm confused. It tells me you don't currently have a job. I don't understand what you are getting at.

[Dozen Arrows]

LOL, it is ok you don't have to understand.