Regarding spiritual matters I should begin by saying that I reject the proposition that absolute
knowledge is attainable by any human being. When I say "I believe", I am simply explaining not what
I know to be true but rather what both my heart and mind leads me to conclude is likely. I do not
pretend to know without doubt whether or not a supreme being even exists in the universe let alone
the mind of such a being and therefore even though I find the prospect that there is no God
extremely unlikely I can't help but accept the possibility that it could indeed be the case. That
being said...
I believe God exists and is the creator of the universe. I don't know and don't believe it's
important to know how this unfathomable task was accomplished, how long it took, or even whether or
not it is complete. My suspicion is that, given a human understanding of time, it has been billions
of years since all matter was hurled into existence and it has been moving and rearanging itself
ever since according to God's laws. I see no reason to assume that process has ended or will ever
end.
I believe in the concept of body, mind and spirit for all men and women. I believe that the
spirit is unique to each life, is born at the moment of conception and begins to develop. It seems
to me that the body enables the mind, the mind enables the spirit and that the spirit enables a
conciousness of the spirit of God.
For lack of a better way to describe how a conciousness of the spirit of God manifests
itself for me, I can only say that it seems to be through a very natural sense of conversation.
Some I'm sure would call it prayer but for me I believe conversation is a better description. This
sense is very strong and very real to me and occurs routinely througout a typical day.
At the moment of death I suspect that body and spirit separate. The matter that makes up the body
utilmately goes on forever changing in form, separating and becoming part of other physical
realities while the spirit goes on to find a greater conciousness with the spirt of God continuing
the conversation so to speak that began during physical life. I believe it is that conversation for
which we were created and through which our spirit continues to develop even after death.
I believe the bible and other religious documents are the result of communication between the spirts
of men and God and although I believe it likely that it is for the most part accurate, I do not
accept the bible as the absolute word of God divinely dictated to a chosen few. As this is indeed
religious dogma and that interpretations of those documents are also most often considered to be
divine revelation, I seek God privately and see little value in the pursuit of unattainable
consensus with others. As I am naturally suspect of any attempt by men to steer my spiritual
course, I expect to live my life consistent with the internal compass I believe God Himself has
placed within me. I seek no reward and fear no consequences for doing what is as natural to me as
breathing . As misguided as many may see this, I can only hope to continue the private conversation
with my creator and pray my spirit will continue to develop with the sense of serenity and spiritual
peace which has been growing within me for as long as I can remember.
I had a very close friend who could have written this piece and may very well have written something just like it. She was well respected in the church community but to those that had her confidence she would reveal these things about herself. She did'nt hold the Bible in any esteem at all . . .never read it. She did have a few favorite preachers, but if they preached against her pet sins they were taken off her "favorite list" and deemed not worthy to heed.
She's about 60 now . . . .old enough to show that her way bore no fruit . . . .(major understatement).
Quote:
I do not
accept the bible as the absolute word of God divinely dictated to a chosen few. As this is indeed
religious dogma and that interpretations of those documents are also most often considered to be
divine revelation, I seek God privately and see little value in the pursuit of unattainable
consensus with others. As I am naturally suspect of any attempt by men to steer my spiritual
course, I expect to live my life consistent with the internal compass I believe God Himself has
placed within me. I seek no reward and fear no consequences for doing what is as natural to me as
breathing .
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Leaf,
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by saying "that her way bore no fruit" but if by that you meanshe didn't dogood works, I'd have to say that being motivated by a belief to do good works is in no way a measure of the truth of that belief. Even Louis Farakan's tribe get's people off drugs, reforms prostitutes and pimps and in general cleans up slum areas.Hamas provides food and medicine and protectionfor the poor. Both turn lives around and turn people towards a belief in God (at least in God as they believe Him to be). I would think you would agree that the fundamental beliefs of both these examples are false yet both, as you say "bear fruit". In fact I'd say nearly all faiths are motivated by their belief to perform good works but of course not all can be true.
Perhaps doing good works is not what you mean by bearing fruit. If not maybe you could explain.
That was a very well written post. It is also obvious that you have put a great deal of honest thought into your positions. It seems to me that you nearly have some of these issues worked out in your mind. For instance, you acknowledge that God had certain laws and that he created the universe. You say that at the point of death, body and spirit seperate. The fact that you state that you don't believe it's important to put a time-line on the act of creation actually demonstrates great faith. And you are right in thinking that absolute knowledge is unatttainable by humans. It seems to me that you are still searching for some answers though. I suspect it is still a bit difficult for you to grasp some of the stories that you may have read in the bible. But let me say this to you. I believe God has put within you, and everyone actually, that same "need to know." The bible was written over a period of about four thousand years by various writers from many different backgrounds. Have you ever asked yourself howso many different people from various backgroundscould have written a document over that length of time, and that document have one central theme? It could have only been by Devine Inspiration. If I may offer any advice it would be this;reread the four gospels, those gospels should convince you of the purpose of Jesus, andcontinue your daily prayer life.But there is one other thing you need to do. Get involved with other Christians and get to know a pastor that you can trust, one who has a great knowledge of the Word of God. I don't know what your spiritual condition is but you seem to have more faith and dedication to obtaining knowledge than some "Christians" I personally know. I suspect that the God who is able to do the things you have acknowledged that He did, canalso give you the right answers to your questions. If you want to discuss this further, You mail feel free topersonally e-mail me. There is one other thought I would like to leave with you. You mention other beliefs and organizations that do some good. And if you look at other systems of beliefs, you will see some good ideas and deedsin all of them. But every otherreligion requires a great deal of effort, on the followers part,to obtain whatever their "reward" is. Christianity, however, is different in that the Diety sacrificed Himself for the followers. In other words, religion is man's attempt to get to a god, Chritianity is God's attempt to get to man. Consider how great a love that it took for God to sacrifice Himself for the sake of wanting to have a relationship with YOU!! Read my signature.
Blessings.....Pastorjim
Sylvan,I am sure that your honest and curious question will start a huge and fervent discussion among very well intentioned posters. But please remember, in different ways, most who read your post just want to help you find answers. God bless you.
__________________
Mere religion is just hanging around the cross.......True Christianity is getting on the cross.
I have to agree with Bro Mac. One is either moving forward with God, or he is drifting away from the ways of God. He is either for God, or he is against God. He either gathereth with God, or scattereth abroad. Make the tree good and his fruit good, or make the tree corrupt and his fruit corrupt as every tree is know by his fruit.
The knowledge of all Gods ways will always excape the human mind. The carnal man cannot know them because they are spiritiually discerned. The natural mind is not subject unto the things of God, they are strange and foreign unto the unregenerated mind of man. One must have the mind of Christ to understand and comprehend the things of the Spirit. Marvel not that I say unto thee, ye must be born again of water and of the Spirit to see the Kingdom of God.One absolute is this: He that cometh unto God MUST believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
John Baptise had the correct understanding, " He must increase, but I must decrease". One must acknowledge his very, very, limited mental knowledge and understanding of things beyond the sight of his eyes. Without Faith it is impossible to please God. Faith is a simple trust in God and his ways, which are past humanity ever finding them out. Faith is accepting the fact that we know nothing and God knows it all. Faith is excepting Gods ways as perfect and our ways corrupt and deserving of judgement and not mercy.
To question God, His ways, and his word, began with the serpents lies to Eve in the Garden. To question God is to attempt to become as God. To fail to trust in God, is to place ourselves equal to, or even above our creator and God.
This is a battle that all must encounter at some point in earthly life. Eternity is determined by the outcome of this warfare within the mind of man.
Sylvan,I am sure that your honest and curious question will start a huge and fervent discussion among very well intentioned posters. But please remember, in different ways, most who read your post just want to help you find answers. God bless you.
I value and read with interest the posts of all those who seek God and are in honest pursuit of answers to the mysteries of His ways. I have little interest in the opinions of those who no longer search but have all the answers. I believe those who preach as if their opinion regarding spiritual matters are one and the same withthe mind of Godare sadly deluded and borderline blasphemous. They have substituted faith in God with faith in their human understanding. I think Snooky explained this kind of thinking quite well.
Anyway, I agree with you in that most here are just trying to be helpfull. Lot's of good ideas thoughtfullypresented and with humility rather than arrogance.
Are you a Christian, Sylvan? If you do not claim to be then I will not take this any further simply because I am learning not to be so arrogant and focus solely on Jesus Christ. I do not feel that I can guide you with the word of God like the others can, yet. But I just wanted to say to you that if you DO consider yourself to be a Christian, than his name is Jesus Christ. I know of the group of people arewho refer to God as a questionable"supreme being" but if you are a Christian then I would have to urge you to leave them and get rid of that poison. But if you are not, I am not going to push it and I am going to love you anyway! [8D]
I hope that I did not come off in a mean way about it? I do not want to push you away.
Yes Ron, I am Christian and I have an interest in your thoughtsregarding God and spirituality just as I've shared some of mine. I'm really not interested in you guidence. Thanks anyway.
Ok, no problem my friend. I tend to be too direct most of the time. I just want to say that for a Christian there is one way and only one way, our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ. Please do not take this the wrong way, I am saddened by your mis-directed perception of dogma and a supreme being and I think that your mind is being poisoned. I'm sorry if you feel threatened by what I just said. Please continue to listen to the others and keep seeking Christ.
An honest and curious view...
