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Old 05-11-2008, 08:52 PM   #1
 
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Default salaams, Muslim Hunter

i am a 7th generation American from German immigrants who went to Pa Centre county then to Illinois in 1840s. fought in every war known to this land. we settled in stephenson county Illinois and Green county Wis. all were farmers and many children so we still have many farms in our family. and we all love to hunt trap and fish.
in my religion we have a great respect for the animal we are ready to take for sustenance. Before we let the arrow fly or pull the trigger we praise the creator. by saying Bismillah" In the name of God". after the animal is dead we say Alhumdullillah " All praise is too God".
And we give a portion of it for what we call sadaqah " Meaning as a charity to the less fortunate. this is like saying thank you to the creator. Now one may ask how did i become Muslim coming from a christian background. I always studied religion, so in my findings i started to read many books and i found Islaam is for me. So i went to egypt and Yemen to study and i remained for 3 years learned the Arabic langauge. and came back to Illinois to live. Ive been muslim since i was 19 and im 34 now. I love my heritage and i share it with my 6 children and wife who is of dutch lineage.
I hunt in Northern maine where me and my brother own land near Linneus and here in Northern Illinois. I shot a 11 pt Buck thislast Decemberwith my bow. But it wont allow me to download? dont understand why. so this is my story Jameel Daughenbaugh
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Old 05-11-2008, 09:08 PM   #2
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Default RE: salaams, Muslim Hunter

"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."
Acts 4;12
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Old 05-11-2008, 09:58 PM   #3
 
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Default RE: salaams, Muslim Hunter

shaykhul islaam ibnu taymiyyah said. Their are no worse people than those who attribute something to God that he has not done so himself. God is One as he says in the Quraan He begets not nor has he been begotten and their is nothing likened to him. and those who dont believe say to me yours and to me mine
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Old 05-12-2008, 05:39 AM   #4
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Default RE: salaams, Muslim Hunter

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also; 1 John 2;23



You are my Son, today I have begotten youWhat does this mean?
In the Qur'an we find various passages protesting against a notion of "begetting" for God, for example

[ul]He begetteth not, nor is he begotten.
And there is none like unto Him.
Sura 112:3-4 [/ul]

Many Muslims make statements like the following, taken from a newsgroup posting:

[ul]My reasons to reject christianity are too numerous to count but ...
... and you associate God with an animal act! (begetting!)
I reject it totally! [/ul]
Where does the Bible even say so? I have not found one passage where God is connected with a sexual act. It is understandable that Muslims might believe this to be so since the Qur'an speaks out against it so forcefully, but it is actually nowhere to be found in the Bible itself.
There are a number of passages the word "begotten" is used, but it is usually metaphorically, and never literal when associated with God.
There are exactly three passages where Jesus is called "begotten" in the Bible.
There are a few more in the King James Version, but in those other places it is a mistranslation of monogenes according to the unanimous opinion among the scholars of the Greek language.
The verses that do speak about "begotten" are:

[ul]Acts 13:33
Hebrews 1:5
Hebrews 5:5 [/ul]
In the above three cases it is not an "original statement" but each time it is quoting Psalm 2:7 from the Old Testament.
What are all of these three passages talking about? Let us read them in context. In Acts 13 we find this expression a sermon preached by Peter:


32
And we bring you the good news that what God promised to the fathers,
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this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus; as also it is written in the second psalm, 'Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee.'
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And as for the fact that he raised him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, he spoke in this way, 'I will give you the holy and sure blessings of David.'
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Therefore he says also in another psalm, 'Thou wilt not let thy Holy One see corruption.' ...
In Hebrews 1:


1
In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets;
2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
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He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by his word of power. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
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having become as much superior to angels as the name he has obtained is more excellent than theirs.
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For to what angel did God ever say, "Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee"? Or again, "I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son"?
6
And again, when he brings the first-born into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."
Hebrews 5:


1
For every high priest chosen from among men is appointed to act on behalf of men in relation to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins.
2
He can deal gently with the ignorant and wayward, since he himself is beset with weakness.
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Because of this he is bound to offer sacrifice for his own sins as well as for those of the people.
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And one does not take the honor upon himself, but he is called by God, just as Aaron was.
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So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him, "Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee";
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as he says also in another place, "Thou art a priest for ever, after the order of Melchiz'edek."
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In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard for his godly fear.
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Although he was a Son, he learned obedience through what he suffered;
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and being made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,
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being designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchiz'edek.
All of these passages speak about the resurrection and exaltation of Christ. It refers to his taking office as king and priest. This took place about 33 years after the birth of Jesus. Clearly, in Biblical usage, the term "begotten" when used for Jesus in those passages is not at all connected with anything sexual but has a metaphorical meaning. The expression "the begotten son" of God is never mentioned in respect to his miraculous conception by the Holy Spirit or his birth by the Virgin Mary.
It might well be that the Muslim understanding is correct in regard to the Qur'an, but it is better to carefully read the Bible or ask knowledgable Christians before just assuming that the Bible does speak about the same thing that is condemned in the Qur'an. There is no duty on the part of the Christian to actually believe in the false notions that the Qur'an has about the Christians. The problem in not in the Bible, it is in the Qur'an whose author has not understood the clear meaning of the Biblical language.
What then is the Biblical meaning? I think Romans 1:4 says it most clearly that Jesus "was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord." The resurrection was the time of public declaration of what he has been all along. The NIV translates the three above mentioned verses as "Today I became your Father" instead of the literal "Today I have begotten you" in order to bring out more clearly the strong symbolic meaning of the word, which should be already obvious from their original place in Psalm 2:7 as well as from the way it is quoted in the New Testament in refering to the resurrection.
Psalm 2 is an inauguration psalm for the Israelite kings -- the public declaration of kingship. And most of the Kings became kings as grown men. None became king at his conception.
And this meaning caries over into the New Testament use for Jesus just as well, that the resurrection is the public announcement by God about the true identity and authority of Jesus, Messiah, true king of Israel, representative of God among mankind.
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Old 05-12-2008, 06:32 AM   #5
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Default RE: salaams, Muslim Hunter

And The Tenack Says About the SonIn Blue)

Proverbs
Chapter 8


1
8[/size]9 Does not Wisdom call, and Understanding raise her voice?
2
On the top of the heights along the road, at the crossroads she takes her stand;
3
By the gates at the approaches of the city, in the entryways she cries aloud:
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"To you, O men, I call; my appeal is to the children of men.
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1819 You simple ones, gain resource, you fools, gain sense.
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"Give heed! for noble things I speak; honesty opens my lips.
7
24
25 Yes, the truth my mouth recounts, but the wickedness my lips abhor.
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Sincere are all the words of my mouth, no one of them is wily or crooked;
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All of them are plain to the man of intelligence, and right to those who attain knowledge.
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Receive my instruction in preference to silver, and knowledge rather than choice gold.
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(For Wisdom is better than corals, and no choice possessions can compare with her.)
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"I, Wisdom, dwell with experience, and judicious knowledge I attain.
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(The fear of the LORD is to hate evil Pride, arrogance, the evil way, and the perverse mouth I hate.
14
4041 Mine are counsel and advice; Mine is strength; I am understanding.
15
By me kings reign, and lawgivers establish justice;
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By me princes govern, and nobles; all the rulers of earth.
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"Those who love me I also love, and those who seek me find me.
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With me are riches and honor, enduring wealth and prosperity.
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My fruit is better than gold, yes, than pure gold, and my revenue than choice silver.
20
On the way of duty I walk, along the paths of justice,
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Granting wealth to those who love me, and filling their treasuries.
22
58
59 "The LORD begot me, the first-born of his ways, the forerunner of his prodigies of long ago;
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6465 From of old I was poured forth, at the first, before the earth.
24
70
71 When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no fountains or springs of water;
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Before the mountains were settled into place, before the hills, I was brought forth;
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While as yet the earth and the fields were not made, nor the first clods of the world.
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"When he established the heavens I was there, when he marked out the vault over the face of the deep;
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When he made firm the skies above, when he fixed fast the foundations of the earth;
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When he set for the sea its limit, so that the waters should not transgress his command;
30
96[color=#0000ff]97 Then was I beside him as his craftsman, and I was his delight day by day, Playing before him all the while,
31
playing on the surface of his earth; and I found delight in the sons of men.
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"So now, O children, listen to me;
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instruction and wisdom do not reject! Happy the man who obeys me, and happy those who keep my ways,
34
Happy the man watching daily at my gates, waiting at my doorposts;
35
For he who finds me finds life, and wins favor from the LORD;
36
But he who misses me harms himself; all who hate me love death."


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Old 05-12-2008, 07:58 AM   #6
 
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Default RE: salaams, Muslim Hunter

when it comes to the religion of paul as we see it becomes a confusing situation at hand. as you must study the church fathers from nicea and the ecumenical council and the prohibitions of certain books. the inn fighting of athnasius and arius
as we see begetting you say is not a act of animalism. if god is the father in literal sense then their is no need of the genelogical approach of matthew and luke. As we see God is the father. Allah says in the quraan when mary asks him how can it be no man has touched me. Allah said what i say is be and it Is. we are created in this manner. we believe Jesus is great sinless and the messiah but we do not attribute him as a god son. for even in the biblical scripture you have machelsideck born with out mother or father for who is greater than he.
the ancient church fathers differed on the triune God and the Son of God approach. there were many religions of the past that had Sons of God. like Mithraism for one. who even died on a cross for his people and was a savior for his people the Roman Men. We dont bash Christ. i dont really like to debate even though i went to ICBT of missouri when i was younger "international college of biblical theology"
And even about the term Begotten Psalms 2;7 God tell david. I have begotten you as my son today. Ok fine i see that. then god has lied at John 3;16 by saying that i have jesus is god ONLY begotten Son. Or What are they trying to show there. We all know that the 4 testament books were not written by those whom they are acorded too. Example Matthew 9:9. Jesus saw Matthew and told him to walk with him. this was written in 3rd party form. some historians say they were written by Isador. a disciple of Matthew.
i really dont feel like a debate, i believe In Allah the creator of the heavens and the earth. And in the Last day and all the prophets from Adam to Muhammad, if you call to GOD then you will be forgiven for all your past sins and given double the reward for the things you used to do.. Abu Yaqub Jameel daughenbaugh
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Old 05-12-2008, 08:21 AM   #7
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Default RE: salaams, Muslim Hunter

This is all just too obvious. I would'nt feed it.
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Old 05-12-2008, 11:59 AM   #8
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Default RE: salaams, Muslim Hunter

Quote:
ORIGINAL: daughenbaughredneck

I always studied religion, so in my findings i started to read many books and i found Islaam is for me. Soi went to egypt and Yemen to study and i remained for 3 years learned the Arabic langauge. and came back to Illinois to live.Ive been muslim since iwas 19 and im 34 now.I love my heritage and ishare it with my 6 children and wife who is of dutch lineage.
Ihunt in Northern maine where me and my brother own land near Linneus and here in Northern Illinois. Ishot a 11 pt Buck thislast Decemberwith my bow. But it wont allow me to download? dont understand why. so this is my story Jameel Daughenbaugh
This is a problem that I see so much of. People read to many books and listen to what a man says without testing the spirits. To me there is only 1 book thatneeds to beread and that is the Bible. I searched many Christian books trying to find what Christianityis all about. I listened to tons of preachers who all preached a differernt message and this did nothing but confuse me. Once I sat down and read the Word of God in the Bible and applied it to my life I found the truth.Jesus came to life and I witnessed the power of God. It takes your own personal relationship with Jesus to find the truth and to be set free from the burdens of this world. How do you form a personal relationship with Jesus? Die toself and become a servant to themessage of the kindom.What is the message of theKingdom?Repent for the kindom of heaven is near! What does this mean? Live everyday sin freebecause Godcould return at any moment! The cost of this is great and not many are willing to pay the price. Jesus said foxeshave holes and the birds of the airhave nest but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.Jesus was so dedicated tohis message and so obedient to God the Fatherthat hedidnt even have a home. Man will use worldly wisdom to try and decipher the Word. The Word is of the Spirit and the Spirit conflicts with the world. That is why man cannot understand the Word andit gets used improperly. Bible college is the worst at promoting this. Take a man who is educated and let him explain what the Word means in an earthly view. This is how the Word gets distorded into fitting mans lifestyles. This is how people walk away from Christianity. Somewritings and religionsmake alot more since in the worldly view than the Bible because they are of the world.I do have good news! The Alpha and the Omega is fed up with mans disobedience and is getting ready to bring man to repentance. The earthquakes and cyclone is just the start of things to come. Nothing I can say or nothing any Christian can say will change some peoples outlook on Jesus. God's power alone willbring many to repentance but it will be at a great cost for many will be lost.The time is coming when every knee will bow and every tounge shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Peace

Jemeel congrats on the 11 pointer. Would love to see a pic. Hope you can figure out how to post it.
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Old 05-12-2008, 01:22 PM   #9
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i really dont feel like a debate, i believe In Allah the creator of the heavens and the earth. And in the Last day and all the prophets from Adam to Muhammad, if you call to GOD then you will be forgiven for all your past sins and given double the reward for the things you used to do.. Abu Yaqub Jameel daughenbaugh .

Yet in another sentence you say you believe Jesus is the Messiah ? Messiah or annointed is also Moshiach or Savior, so how can you be saved by Calling on God ?
What greater reward can a man receive than everlasting Life ?
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Old 05-12-2008, 09:48 PM   #10
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I must confess I don't know any Qur'an. I hope and Pray I know enough Bible to be saved.

This is my worry. TRUE Muslims, who believe the Qur'an, and what it teaches, are correct in wanting AMERICANS KILLED, is this a true statement?

We Americans want to Save all Muslims. UNLESS, they are trying to kill us.

So what I see is a Holy War coming and we don't have any Chioce.

What is your thoughts on this?

TF
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