The Sabbath

[Leafrivermac]

This is a pretty interesting subject when you look at it without preconcieved mind sets. Not to say that I have the correct answers but I realize when speaking with diverse christians that opinions vary. The Jews correctly say that saturday is the sabbath that was observed due to the OT command from the Lord. Some say that the Gentiles shanged it to sunday because it was the day that they marked Christs resurrection. Many believe that the 4th century church diabolically changed it from saturday to sunday for whatever reason. . . . .however there is NT evidence that the early church started calling sundays "the Lord's day", so I would say that it was this early NT church that started the change from saturday to sunday worship rather than Constantine. I've decided that Constantine probably only made conveniant what was already being practiced. In as much as causing sunday to be a day of rest from jobs and schools. . . .I may be wrong.
Anyway, what say ye . . .Should we be concerned about the day whether it be saturday or sunday? Should we even consider it important to observe a sabbath?. . .if so, what would be the proper way of observing a weekly sabbath?

[Kosherboy]

I don't know

[MichaelT.]

Romans 14 ...

5In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable. 6Those who worship the Lord on a special day do it to honor him. Those who eat any kind of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks to God before eating. And those who refuse to eat certain foods also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God. 7For we don"™t live for ourselves or die for ourselves. 8If we live, it"™s to honor the Lord. And if we die, it"™s to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9Christ died and rose again for this very purpose"”to be Lord both of the living and of the dead.

Does this help any??

MET

[Turkey Fife]

Exod.16
[ol][*][23] And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.[*][25] And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.[*][26] Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.[*][29] See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.[/ol]
Exod.20
[ol][*][8] Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.[*][10] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:[*][11] For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.[/ol]
Exod.31
[ol][*][13] Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.[*][14] Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.[*][15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[*][16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.[/ol]
Exod.35
[ol][*][2] Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.[*][3] Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.[/ol]
Lev.16
[ol][*][31] It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.[/ol]
Lev.19
[ol][*][3] Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.[*][30] Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.[/ol]
Lev.23
[ol][*][3] Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.[*][11] And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.[*][15] And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:[*][16] Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.[*][24] Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.[*][32] It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.[*][38] Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.[*][39] Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.[/ol]
Lev.24
[ol][*][8] Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.[/ol]
Lev.25
[ol][*][2] Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land which I give you, then shall the land keep a sabbath unto the LORD. [*][4] But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.[*][6] And the sabbath of the land shall be meat for you; for thee, and for thy servant, and for thy maid, and for thy hired servant, and for thy stranger that sojourneth with thee,[*][8] And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years.[/ol]
Lev.26
[ol][*][2] Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.[*][34] Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.[*][35] As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it.[*][43] The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes.[/ol]
Num.15
[ol][*][32] And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.[/ol]
Num.28
[ol][*][9] And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:[*][10] This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.[/ol]
Deut.5
[ol][*][12] Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.[*][14] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.[*][15] And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.[/ol]
2Kgs.4
[ol][*][23] And he said, Wherefore wilt thou go to him to day? it is neither new moon, nor sabbath. And she said, It shall be well.[/ol]
2Kgs.11
[ol][*][5] And he commanded them, saying, This is the thing that ye shall do; A third part of you that enter in on the sabbath shall even be keepers of the watch of the king's house;[*][7] And two parts of all you that go forth on the sabbath, even they shall keep the watch of the house of the LORD about the king.[*][9] And the captains over the hundreds did according to all things that Jehoiada the priest commanded: and they took every man his men that were to come in on the sabbath, with them that should go out on the sabbath, and came to Jehoiada the priest.[/ol]
2Kgs.16
[ol][*][18] And the covert for the sabbath that they had built in the house, and the king's entry without, turned he from the house of the LORD for the king of Assyria.[/ol]
1Chr.9
[ol][*][32] And other of their brethren, of the sons of the Kohathites, were over the shewbread, to prepare it every sabbath.[/ol]
1Chr.23
[ol][*][31] And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the LORD in the sabbaths, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the LORD:[/ol]
2Chr.2
[ol][*][4] Behold, I build an house to the name of the LORD my God, to dedicate it to him, and to burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual shewbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts of the LORD our God. This is an ordinance for ever to Israel.[/ol]
2Chr.8
[ol][*][13] Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, even in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles.[/ol]
2Chr.23
[ol][*][4] This is the thing that ye shall do; A third part of you entering on the sabbath, of the priests and of the Levites, shall be porters of the doors;[*][8] So the Levites and all Judah did according to all things that Jehoiada the priest had commanded, and took every man his men that were to come in on the sabbath, with them that were to go out on the sabbath: for Jehoiada the priest dismissed not the courses.[/ol]
2Chr.31
[ol][*][3] He appointed also the king's portion of his substance for the burnt offerings, to wit, for the morning and evening burnt offerings, and the burnt offerings for the sabbaths, and for the new moons, and for the set feasts, as it is written in the law of the LORD.[/ol]
2Chr.36
[ol][*][21] To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.[/ol]
Neh.9
[ol][*][14] And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:[/ol]
Neh.10
[ol][*][31] And if the people of the land bring ware or any victuals on the sabbath day to sell, that we would not buy it of them on the sabbath, or on the holy day: and that we would leave the seventh year, and the exaction of every debt.[*][33] For the shewbread, and for the continual meat offering, and for the continual burnt offering, of the sabbaths, of the new moons, for the set feasts, and for the holy things, and for the sin offerings to make an atonement for Israel, and for all the work of the house of our God.[/ol]
This is not all but enough to make a point I hope.

TF

[Kosherboy]

They don't care about that point, they like the Do as you please point better, LOL

[MichaelT.]

ORIGINAL: Kosherboy

They don't care about that point, they like the Do as you please point better, LOL

I wouldn't go that far, Alex... but what are we to do? Keep the law of the O.T. , or learn from the teachings of the Apostles in the N.T.?

I have scripture and you have scripture ..... which is more true?

MET

[Leafrivermac]

Yep, that's an important Scripture and it contains an important directive in that "You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable" . I think , that we should look at what we take for granted so that we know if the things we do are lining up. I see no commands in the Scripture to warrant a Sunday sabbath, although we do see the early church possibly going to one. Basically, to me it seems that the Sabbath was a Mosaic covenant specifically between God and the children of Israel. Of course we could say that it pre-dates that covenant because of Genisis 2:1-3 but that still takes speculation.
I agree with you at this point that Romans 14:5 covers the protestant common practice. Especially when I consider that for me to find a church that practices a saturday sabbath . . .if I learned that it is an essential doctrine would set me in a congregation that I would be in disagreement with in regard to other essential doctrines.
It's an interesting study, and I hope that I don't offend anyone as I look at it while trying to take the blinders off. I try to look at things forgetting custom and tradition and outside what I know is commonly held acceptable. Eventually I figure it out or someone sets me straight.

[Kosherboy]

ORIGINAL: MichaelT.

I wouldn't go that far, Alex... but what are we to do? Keep the law of the O.T. , or learn from the teachings of the Apostles in the N.T.?

I have scripture and you have scripture ..... which is more true?

MET

Whom do we choose to believe is the question, do I choose to believe Paul, Peter or John Haggee or Beny Hinn ?, Or do I believe the Son Of God ?
Who said;

Matthew 5:17-20
17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter will pass from the law until everything takes place.
(Has Heaven and earth passed away ?)
19 So anyone( Paul, Peter OrJohn Shmug)who breaks one of the least of these commands and teaches others to do this will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches others to do so will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness goes beyond that of the experts in the law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

[Leafrivermac]

Whom do we choose to believe is the question, do I choose to believe Paul, Peter or John Haggee or Beny Hinn ?, Or do I believe the Son Of God ?
Who said;

Alex, I believe the Bible, and draw from the Old and the New testament. I also believe the words of the apostles. If the apostles lied then how do you know they wer'nt lying about what Christ said?
I'm asking these questions in a pretty much open ended way. I'm noticing that there is no command for the gentiles to have a sunday sabbath. I also notice that I can't find where the gentiles were commanded to have any particular day for a sabbath. I see where folk were meeting on the first day of the week and calling it the "Lord's day". I also see where they appeared to be going to the temple on saturday. But of course the Jews would as a seventh day sabbath was a sign between themselves and God.
As a gentile there's a delima between what we see early gentile christians in the Bible practicing, what we've grown up with, and a desire to do what is pleasing unto God.
If it came down to a vote in my congregation as to what day of the week we should gather I honestly don't know how I would vote.
As a Jew, your opinion is valuable in things Jewish, but also as a Jew your steeped in your own traditions and logic and this problem is ages old as evidenced between the Jewish converts and Gentiles in the New Testament.
Not that I'm opposed to your viewpoints, but to a great extent I feel that there are some things that apply specifically to the Jew that apply not to the Gentile.

[Snooky]

The scripture is always a very interesting discussion when the minds are open.
Bro Mac makes a good point. What the early church taught and practised, then and whatwe practise now(and I suspect among the Jews of 2000 yrs ago & those of today) is not exactly the same. Traditions of men have crept in. I have seen changes during my lifetime, among Pentecostals, Baptists, Catholics, ect. I ruffled feathers recently on another site with a referance to old time "shouting" Baptist.
There has been a "church" evolution, but Gods word remains the same. Stand ye in the way and ask for the "old" paths wherein is the good way and walk "therein".
I have asked this before, Did The sacrifice of Jesus, and the bringing in of a "new and living, better covenant" make one day less holy? Or did it make "Six" days more holy? The law written in our hearts, is a 24-7, walking in the Spirit, that we fulfil not the lusts of the flesh. Give me some feed back on this thought. Christ died and shed his blood once, but that blood must be applied to our hearts daily, lest we fail of the grace of God. Jesus arose from the grave once, but is risen in our hearts daily, enabling us to be overcomers and not sinners as those who know not God. Christ is appearing in the heavens to make intercession for us, an advocate with the Father, yet he lives continously within our fleshly being.
The righteousness of the law fulfilled in us, requires, "Christ in you" the hope of glory. Christ, our sabbath, abides within at all times, not just 1/7th of the time.
You brethern that know the scriptures, give me some scriptural input here.