This came up in a Politics thread ... There's an argument on the secular/liberal/left side of thinking where basically it is argues that Christ's death abolished so many of the Levitical laws, customs, regulations, punishments, etc., that a man lying with a man, etc. went out the window as a sin, much as touching a pig did.
My response was that Christ's death did away with a lot of the archaic rules and punishments, but sin remained sin, including homosexuality.
But this sparked a larger question in my mind, and I'd like to hear your discussion on it.
Did Christ's birth, life, death, and ressurrection change anything that was considered a sin into not being a sin, or anything that once wasn't a sin into being a sin?
This came up in a Politics thread ... There's an argument on the secular/liberal/left side of thinking where basically it is argues that Christ's death abolished so many of the Levitical laws, customs, regulations, punishments, etc., that a man lying with a man, etc. went out the window as a sin, much as touching a pig did.
My response was that Christ's death did away with a lot of the archaic rules and punishments, but sin remained sin, including homosexuality.
But this sparked a larger question in my mind, and I'd like to hear your discussion on it.
Did Christ's birth, life, death, and ressurrection change anything that was considered a sin into not being a sin, or anything that once wasn't a sin into being a sin?
Yes it's a difficult question. There are not 10 commandments but actually 613. Some of them, like circumcision and the dietary laws were waived in the New Testament. Butthe restof them should still be in effect. And if you read the New Testament carefully, you will see the Apostles quoting Scripture, which, to them, would have been the Old Testament. Their own writings not having been certified as Scripture until much later. (This was pointed out by someone in an earlier thread right here on this forum.)
So what this means is that if you are going to use the Old Testament for authority for any matter, you are stuck with all of it. We Catholics rely on Jesus' commission to Peter, (You are a Rock and on this Rock, etc.) for authority so we have no problem. Peter had the authority torelease and retain and passed iton to hissuccessors.
But if you're not Catholic, you have a genuine dilemma. You're still stuck with all of the Old Testament, although some denominations have adopted a dogma that says Jesus did away withall of the Old Testament. This denomination has to act as though none of the Old Testament rules exist anymore. But for the rest of the non-Catholic world, you can't pick and choose. It's all or none.
Of course even Catholics like to pick and choose. You'll see "Catholic" politicians claiming that they are personally opposed to abortion but they believe a woman has the right to choose and yadda, yadda, yadda. But if you find yourself in a picking and choosing situation, you have to give it some serious thought.
Bro eto, I have made several posts along these lines of late that may be of interest. I may not have all the answers, but have plenty of opinions and ideas.
quote: Some of them, like circumcision and the dietary laws were waived in the New Testament. Butthe restof them should still be in effect.
IMO none were waived as they were to bring us to Christ. The types and shadows all pointed to a real purpose that was to be in the future. The Sabbath was for a reason. Circumcision had a very real N.T. fulfilment. All the laws and ordinances pointed to Christ. Every blood sacrifice was only foretelling what was to be.Everything in the Tabernacle preached the N.T. which was yet to be. Gods morals were established before the world was, continued under the law, and strengthened when the laws of God were written in our hearts. Sin always was sin, but now has become exceeding sinful. The law was a working model of the true government of God. A type of the heavenly!! Thy will be done on earth AS IT IS in heaven. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God sent his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh. Paul said that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us. Those of old couldn't fulfill Gods righteousness therefore without us (N.T.) they could not be made perfect.
Jesus was our passover, peace offering, scape goat, dove, ect. and we need not offer those sacrifices again as Jesus was the perfect fulfilment, however we must incorporate them into our N.T. experience.
The 7 feasts of Israel foretell Gods plan for the ages in detail. Passover, Unleavened Bread, Firstfruits, and Pentecost are past. Trumpets, Atonment, (last day of this age) are soon to come, then comes Tabernacles (1000 year reign).
I hear you Snooky. I'm talking more about acts of sin than rules or regulations. E.G., Pre-Jesus, homosexuality was a sin, but post-Jesus, it isn't, because Jesus was all about love and acceptance (or whatever liberal tripe you want to throw in there.)
I see no reason for the scratching of the head as to homosexuality or any other sin as they are all addressed in the New Testament as well. Maybe someone that is at home and can post the Scripture from the NT.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
I see no reason for the scratching of the head as to homosexuality or any other sin as they are all addressed in the New Testament as well. Maybe someone that is at home and can post the Scripture from the NT.
Yes there is.Can't cite a reference because I don't have one of those CDs that let you look up verses on any topic.(Don't believe in 'em.) But I know there is at least one statement that male/male sexual congress is a NO-NO. But not everything in there is mentioned by the Apostles. Remember there are not 10 commandments but 613. (KB can back me up on that, although he might have his own view as to how to deal with all of 'em.)
1 Cor. 6 is the chapter that immediately comes to mind for me. What do you all think verse 12 means? If it is lawful but not expediant, is Paul telling us that we are not accountable under the law , but we still don't sin because it is still not right?
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
12All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
13Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
14And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
15Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
After the old covenant God repeated His moral commanments to the church in the New Testament Scriptures. Whatever God's moral laws were before the Mosaic Covenant were also contained in the Mosaic Law, and continue to be so for us in this day, written for us in the New Testament Scriptures.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
I'm talking more about acts of sin than rules or regulations. E.G., Pre-Jesus, homosexuality was a sin, but post-Jesus, it isn't, because Jesus was all about love and acceptance (or whatever liberal tripe you want to throw in there.)
Jim..in all due respect my friend..a basic Bible knowledge will easily find homosexuality is spoken against in the book of Romans..We no longer live by any rules..per se' we are supposed to be dead to everything and alive in Christ..IF {According to Paul} a Christian is not dead "They are back under the law of sin and death" BUT if we are dead we are under the law of faith..th elove you speak of is not God's love..The love of God is dead to oneself and a life of obedience ot one's convictions which will go beyond the written code." c7 ...Example...we just don't commit adultury..we don;t even watch the garbage on TV..we take every thought captive to the will of God..The dead Christian is a free Christian ..The carnal Christian fits under the category of "The Unrighteous" the sinner fits under the category of "The Godless ..and the obedient fit under the category of the Righteous."Who are scarcely saved." He coming back for those who love Him..Those who love Me keep my commandments." BY HIS SPIRIT "They are all summed up in "Love thy neighbor as yourself and God with all your heart." c7
Can't cite a reference because I don't have one of those CDs that let you look up verses on any topic.(Don't believe in 'em.)
Nothing beats plain old "searching of the scriptures". If you run into a gaint that needs slaying, and your sword is at home you are in trouble.
Any farmer knows that time spent sharpening the hoe, is time well spent.
Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the NATURAL use into that which is against natute. V27 And likewise the men, leaving the NATURAL use of the women, burned in their lust one to another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
II Tim 3:3 Without NATURAL affection.
!! Peter 2:12 As natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption.
Jude:10 But these speak evil of those things which they not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
II Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despite governments.
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
While we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly.
God is not willing that any perish, but that all come to repentance. What more could have been done that that which has been done?
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully, after that we come to the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. V27 But a fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation which shall devore the adversaries. V28 He that despised Moses law died without mercy under two or three wotnesses: V29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be though worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was santified, an unholy thing, and hath done dispite unto the Spirit of Grace? V30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompence, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. V31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Every man shall give account of his deeds, whether they be good, or whether they be evil.
Love never looks away from sin, neither pretends not to see.
Jesus death was to destroy the works of the devil, not to encourage them.
I thought of a question...
