Romans 8:1-8 V4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Hebrews 9:9-10 Which was figure for THE TIME THEN PRESENT, in which which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; V10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and CARNAL ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. V11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is not of this building.
Hebrews 8:1-5 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the SUM: We have such a high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty IN THE HEAVENS; V2 A minister of the santuary and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched and not man. V3 For every high priest is ordained to offer to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessary that this man have somewhat also to offer. V4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: V5 Who serve unto the EXAMPLE and SHADOW of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the Tabernacle: For see saith He that thou make all things after the pattern shewed tothee in the mount.
It is clear that the earthly was a working model of the true Tabernacle God had pitched in heaven. A shadow of the true that revealed worship as it is in the heaven, portrays the will of the Creator of all things, as pertaining to mans relationship with his King, Lord, Master, and Heavenly Father. The laws given to guide and govern the earthy pattern, type, or example only reflect the true example in heaven. The laws, commandments, and ordinances, express the laws, commandments, and ordinancesfound in the true Tabernacle of God in heaven. They are Gods laws and reveals the principles that The King of the Universe uses to govern his subjects throughout all eternity as God changes not. God never breaks his word, or alters his commandments.
Exodus chapter 20 God writes his laws on tables of stone with his own finger and gave Israel, (which didn't exist before Abrahams calling) a set of carnal commandments that Israel couldn't keep because it wasn't in thier mind or heart, and try as they might, their corrupt sinful nature would always be contary to the devine nature of God. (they that are in the flesh still cannot please God) (Ye MUST be born again).
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwritting of ordances that was contary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.
Christ destroyed the law?? NO!! He removed the handwritting, (carnal ordances). He has destroyed the old stony heart, and replaced it with a fleshly heart upon which are written the commandments of God which all mankind was unable to keep in the flesh. Now we have one within that is greater, one that gives power over all the works of the wicked one. One who helps our oft infirmities and giveth us the victory. For the first time in the history of the world is man able to walk upright before his God and come boldly before the throne of grace. The vail no longer barrs one from the Holiest of Holies. Whosoever will let him come and drink of the water of life FREELY.
For the first time man can keep the law because he has been made partaker of the devine nature of God. Not by works that we have done, but by his grace he hath saved us and made us heirs of God and JOINT heirs with Christ. Bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh. Sons of God!! And it doeth not yet appear what we shall be, but when we shall see him, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is!!
We keep the law of God, not because of a carnal commandment, but because we are partakers of his devine nature and keepingthe law is our natural thing to do.
Those who struggle continuallt to do right, heed the words of Jesus! Except you are born again Ye cannot enter into the Kingdom. They that are in the flesh cannot please God. Ye must be born again.
Thats a good read Snooky and this subject is too good to get side tracked as it did in the other thread. I apologize for my part in that.
I came upon this statement and was wondering what you think of it:
His view was that the laws of God that have to do with His moral nature predated the Law of Moses and were added to what we think of as the ceremonial and civil aspects of the Law, but when Jesus abolished the Law at His death even what we would consider the moral aspects of the Law were abolished. God did not abolish His own moral laws when He eradicated the Law, but He did eradicate the legality of the covenant in it's entirety. Even tho we divide the Law into units, the Bible does not do so. God did'nt abolish some parts of the Law and not others because it stood as a single unit.
After abolishing the entire covenant God reiterated His moral commanments to the church in the New Testament Scriptures. Whatever God's moral laws were before the Mosaic Covenant were also contained in the Mosaic Law, and continue to be so for us in this day, written for us in the New Testament Scriptures. These moral laws were contained in the Law of Moses, but we have no way of judging whether or not they were part of God's moral law except for the fact that the command is reiterated in the New Testament Scriptures. If a command does not appear in the New Testament it can be concluded that it was not part of God's eternal moral law, because the identity of God's moral law is found in the expression of revelatory commands in His Word.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
I agree with some of what is said, but not with all that is said.
God did'nt abolish some parts of the Law and not others because it stood as a single unit.
This I think is correct, but I would use fulfilled instead of abolished. I agree that Gods moral law always has, and always will remain constant. Whether they were part of Gods moral law or not really isn't the issue. The fact that they are in the Bible is enough to make them Gods word. IMO every thing contained in the bible is scripture and is there for our learning, whether it is found before the Law, contained in the law, or written after the law. The Psalms, Prophets, New Testament writers, ect. are all scripture or they wouldn't be contained in the Bible.
There were commandments, prophecies, types, shadows, ect. found in the Old Testament that are of great importance in determining the New Testament doctrine and avoiding false doctrine. Repentance, baptism, The Holy Ghost, The Godhead, ect. are all clearly found numerous times in the Old Testament writings. It truly was a working model of the New Testament plan of salvation, and a guideline for New Testament living and future prophecy.
We are built upon the foundation of the Apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself (the fulness of the body) being the Chief corner stone.
I agree with some of what is said, but not with all that is said.
God did'nt abolish some parts of the Law and not others because it stood as a single unit.
This I think is correct, but I would use fulfilled instead of abolished. I agree that Gods moral law always has, and always will remain constant. Whether they were part of Gods moral law or not really isn't the issue. The fact that they are in the Bible is enough to make them Gods word. IMO every thing contained in the bible is scripture and is there for our learning, whether it is found before the Law, contained in the law, or written after the law. The Psalms, Prophets, New Testament writers, ect. are all scripture or they wouldn't be contained in the Bible.
There were commandments, prophecies, types, shadows, ect. found in the Old Testament that are of great importance in determining the New Testament doctrine and avoiding false doctrine. Repentance, baptism, The Holy Ghost, The Godhead, ect. are all clearly found numerous times in the Old Testament writings. It truly was a working model of the New Testament plan of salvation, and a guideline for New Testament living and future prophecy.
We are built upon the foundation of the Apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself (the fulness of the body) being the Chief corner stone.
I agree that "abolish" is used too frequently in this quote. However, it is a word to be dealt with in the New Testament :
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
What I see here is that it is the practices of ordinances that is abolished and the end of trying to be righteous by the law beecause of the victory of Jesus Christ death was abolished and life thru the Gospel was given. The OT will preach the NT, I agree with that. 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: . . . .this is none other than the OT being spoken of.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
2Cor.3
[1] Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
[2] Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
[3] Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
[4] And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
[5] Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
[6] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
[7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[8] How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[9] For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
[10] For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
[11] For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
[12] Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
[13] And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
[14] But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
[16] Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
[17] Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[18] But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Something was done away? Something was Abolished?What do you know that was Written and In-Graved in Stones?
I agree that "abolish" is used too frequently in this quote. However, it is a word to be dealt with in the New Testament :
And as with Baptism, The Holy Ghost infilling, repentance, Musical instruments, and any other doctrine, we must not overlook scriptures in order to find a base for our doctrine. IMO the key to II Cor 3:13 is in The first 12 verses. That which was abolished was pin-pointed in V:7 which takes us back to Ex. 34:33-35. The vail of Moses was a type and shadow and was fulfilled in Christ.
Eph 2:15 Paul is talking about the gentiles who are now made nigh by the blood of Christ. V11 Paul names the Jews and the Gentiles, and Christ now has made of the twain, one new man, so making peace. Through Himself He might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby.
II Tim 1:10 The Blood of Jesus Christ reedemed us from the curse of Adamic death, and came that we might have life, and that more abundantly. Obtained by beliving on Him as the scripture hath said.
What I see here is that it is the practices of ordinances that is abolished and the end of trying to be righteous by the law beecause of the victory of Jesus Christ death was abolished and life thru the Gospel was given. The OT will preach the NT, I agree with that. 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: . . . .this is none other than the OT being spoken of.
2Cor.3
[1] Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
[2] Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
[3] Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
[4] And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
[5] Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
[6] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
[7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[8] How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[9] For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
[10] For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
[11] For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
[12] Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
[13] And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
[14] But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
[16] Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
[17] Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[18] But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Something was done away? Something was Abolished?What do you know that was Written and In-Graved in Stones?
Can you please explain what it was?
TF Done away?the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
Abolished? And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
Written and engraved in stone? But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
The vail was taken away, the ministration of death was done away. I don't see where it says the law was taken away. Did I miss something, or is it just not written here?
The righteousness of the Law
