If predestination is determined on an individual basis before the foundation of the world, we must except as fact, that children who die at birth, are either saved, or doomed, at birth. Must we believe that God created that infant, for the sole purpose of being doomed to eternal torment? If this is not true, isn't the doctrine of individual predestination destroyed? If this is true, are we anything more than puppets, or robots?
If predestination is determined on an individual basis before the foundation of the world, we must except as fact, that children who die at birth, are either saved, or doomed, at birth. Must we believe that God created that infant, for the sole purpose of being doomed to eternal torment? If this is not true, isn't the doctrine of individual predestination destroyed? If this is true, are we anything more than puppets, or robots?
John Calvin claimed man was "created to that misery to which he is subject" and "the necessity of sinning is laid upon the reprobate by the ordination of God." (John McClintock and James Strong, Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature, Vol. II, p. 43). Divesting man of free will and perverting the biblical concept of grace with its twisted theories of predestination and election, Calvin's theology renders man a mindless entity in the hands of a sadistic God:
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But election is the immutable purpose of God, by which, before the foundations of the world were laid, he chose, out of the whole human race, fallen by their own fault from their primeval integrity into sin and destruction, according to the most free pleasure of his own will, and of mere grace, a certain number of men, neither better nor worthier than others, but lying in the same misery with the rest, to salvation in Christ, whom he had, even from eternity, constituted Mediator and head of all the elect, and the foundation of all salvation; and therefore he decreed to give them unto him to be saved, and effectually call and draw them into communion with him by his word and Spirit.... Moreover, holy Scripture ... cloth testify all men not to be elected; but that some are nonÂ*elect, or passed by in the eternal election of God, whom truly God, from most free, just, irreprehensible, and immutable good pleasure, decreed to leave in the common misery ... and not to bestow on them living faith, and the grace of conversion; but having been left in their own ways, and under just judgment, at length, not only on account of their unbelief, but also of all their other sins, to condemn and eternally punish them to the manifestation of his own justice (John McClintock and James Strong, Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature, Vol. 11, p. 44)
[/blockquote] Expressed as "grace only" by the sectarian world and some of our own brethren, salvation by mere grace springs from false premises-Calvin's doctrines of deterministic fatalism which he called predestination and election.
Calvinistic election is attributed to God's arbitrary predestination of individuals. While the Bible teaches the children of God are the elect (1 Peter 2:9), it speaks of a class of persons, not individuals.
Calvinism says the elect are those who were individually selected to salvation (a certain number) and the nonÂ*elect are those eternally condemned individuals, both of whom were predestined to those ends before the world began. Predestination and election are biblical terms, but Calvin perverted them in formulating his doctrine. Electing individuals to salvation, before the world began, God thereby predestined certain persons to salvation and others to damnation, according to Calvin. Holding that God's grace is only for the elect, Calvinism says certain individuals were arbitrarily chosen as recipients of it. Biblical predestination is concerned not with individuals, but the locus of salvation for election of a certain class of persons. That's the thrust of Paul's teaching in Eph. 1:3Â*11.
[ul][*]All spiritual blessings are in Christ (v. 3).[*]We are chosen in Christ (v. 4).[*]Our adoption as God's children was predestined through Christ (v. 5).[*]Our acceptance is in Christ (v. 6).[*]Our Redemption through his blood is in Christ (v. 7).[*]God purposed that all should be one in Christ (vv. 9Â*10).[*]Our inheritance as God's children was predestined in Christ (v. 11). [/ul] As God predestined creatures with gills to life in water, so those in Christ were predestined to eternal life in him. God does not choose who will enter Christ, but says that all who do are classified as his elect. A creature of free will, man chooses to obey or disobey God and when he chooses God, he is thereby elected to salvation in Christ Jesus. God's elect is constituted of all who decide to enter Christ and that is done by obedience to the gospel (Rom. 6:3Â*6). That is salvation by "grace through faith" (Eph. 2:8). God's grace provides salvation and man's faith appropriates that blessing.
God has allowed men liberty and free will to choose between good and evil. Some will choose evil and cause the ruin of others; the necessity is in the obstinacy of men and not in the decrees of God.... God does not slay men, nor deprive them of their free nature, nor limit its natural free action in its allotted range, in order to prevent men from sinning. It is a fundamental law of man's nature that his character shall have full scope freely to develop itself; hence responsibility can justly exist, penalty can be justified, and rewards can be bestowed (H. Leo Boles, New Testament Commentaries, Gospel Advocate Co., Matthew, pp. 370Â*371).
God's grace has been provided in Christ, not in some arbitrary decree of God to save and condemn "a certain number" of individuals before the world began. Denying the grace of God to the nonÂ*elect, Calvinism circumscribes it and contradicts Paul's inspired teaching on its universality.
For the grace of God, that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works (Titus 2:1 1Â*14).
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
God planned man's salvation before He created the world..
"Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will;
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Ephesians 1:5,11 kjv.
This does not mean God arbritarily chooses who will be saved and who won't be..He has said that He wants all to be saved.1 Tim. 2:3-4---John 3:16---2 Peter 3:9..God knows the future and He knows who will get saved and who won't..predestination is based on God's foreknowledge and has more to do with what the christian is predestined to than who is predestined..1 Peter 1:2, "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."
romans 8:29, "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren".
so to put it simply, God knows who will be saved but He gave us the choice of Heaven or hell as He will not choose for us and predestination will not change eternity..and something else to think about. predestination assures us of eternal life..
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wayne
"There's room at the cross for you."
What happens to the unborn or infants who die? What happens to those who are mentally handicapped? Are they "automatically" saved?
IMO, it presents a huge problem for Arminians, but no problems for Calvinists.
We are conceived and born spiritually dead. If God saves an unborn child, God must in the process give that child a "new heart" (make him reborn from above, or born again). This is obviously done without his choice, because he is unable to choose.
This presents a problem for Arminians because they argue that if God changes a person's heart without that person's permission, God is turning that person into a robot. That means all the saved unborn are robots.
Or, ifyour willling to concede, that changing the heart of the unborn does not turn that person into a robot, thenyou must also concede that changing the heart of an adult also does not change that person into a robot.
Individual predestination comes packaged if several wrappers, but always the same basic flavor. A slightly different twist is the "seed of the serpent" doctrine. It has been traced at least to 1200 AD in North Africa. As with all predestional doctrines, it requires a special revelation given only to a select few, and the rest are blinded. It teaches as follows:
The serpent was a most attractive creature, walking upright,and entered the Garden to seduce Eve which he did. The sexual affair resulted in conception and Cain was born as a result. Adam then knew Eve and she then bore Abel. From these two 1/2 brothers, two linages were brought into the earth. The linage of Cain being the "seed of the serpent" cannot be saved. The seed of Abel has the choice to receive, or reject, the gospel. No one knows today which linage we would be a decendant of, therefore the need to preach the gospel to every creature. William Brannum was the last "big name" to ressurect this "old heresy" and taught it in the 50's. All around the world today there are little "cell" groups of Brannumites that gather weekly and play Williams tapes, waiting for the next prophet to appear and continue his work.
We are conceived and born spiritually dead. If God saves an unborn child, God must in the process give that child a "new heart" (make him reborn from above, or born again). This is obviously done without his choice, because he is unable to choose.
bow, The problem I see here is that it destroys the teaching that you put forth saying that the unborn's fate was pre-determned from before the foundation of the world. Was he predestined to damnation from eternity past, and now because of God's oversight, and not allowing the child to live as long as planned, does God reverse this predestinated, eternal purpose, for the child? You said it is obviously done, because he isn't old enough to choose. Now you are saying, at a certain age, one is allow to choose?
This IMO is a total contridiction to everything you have been posting, What am I missing here?
We should not put God in a box.
God says I will save whom I will save, meaning he as a sovereign God has the right to choose whom he Will save.
And not us with our prejudices brains.
Salvation is not from us, or how any man interprets the Word, It is His Alone.
Even the name of our savior is Yeshua, Meaning God's salvation, not man's salvation.
I would venture to name some of you as legalistic, you think all the answers are in what you read and interpret and that becomes the LAW.
Well it is not.
Shalom
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The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. Zephaniah 1:14
פרץ
predestination and children?
