From reading things on this message board, I have concluded that some are confused as to the meaning of the phrase "fallen from grace".
Grace is not synonymous with salvation. Grace is the means by which we come to salvation, but it is not salvation. The words are simply not interchageable as if they had the same meaning. For example, in Ephes. 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- [9] not by works, so that no one can boast.
We have been saved by grace...grace is the means of that salvation...it is not the salvation itself.
Once salvation is given, it is never taken away.
Thephrase "fallen away from God's grace" is often used by some to describe someone who has adopted a sinful lifestyle, ....or someone who has lost their salvation. The reality is---Paul used it to describe those who had regressed into legalism (Galatians 5:4).
From reading things on this message board, I have concluded that some are confused as to the meaning of the phrase "fallen from grace".
Grace is not synonymous with salvation. Grace is the means by which we come to salvation, but it is not salvation. The words are simply not interchageable as if they had the same meaning. For example, in Ephes. 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- [9] not by works, so that no one can boast.
We have been saved by grace...grace is the means of that salvation...it is not the salvation itself.
Once salvation is given, it is never taken away.
Thephrase "fallen away from God's grace" is often used by some to describe someone who has adopted a sinful lifestyle, ....or someone who has lost their salvation. The reality is---Paul used it to describe those who had regressed into legalism (Galatians 5:4).
Joe
Excellent!
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Copy & Paste from one ofLeafrivermac's post.......
For the benefit of those who are not aware of the meaning of the word "If".........."If" is an Elliptical Infinitive (has no ending)....RH
Jesus brought us the New Covenant and, just like all covenants . . .conditions must be met if the benefits are to be received. Throughout the New Testament, the word 'if' is used many times in association with salvation. When the conditions God sets by these 'ifs' are not met then an individual can't expect to receive the rewards, as God never makes idle claims.
Romans 8:12-14 clearly state that Christians have an obligation to keep from sin through the power of the Holy Spirit and the penalty for not doing so is death ..."Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation -but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live ..."
1 Cor 15:2 says that we are saved only if we hold to the Word. Heb 3:6 says we are of God's house if we hold fast. Heb 3:14 says we are partakers of Christ if we are steadfast to the end. Heb 10:36-39 says that if the righteous draw back they face destruction
If an individual is reconciled, sanctified or 'in grace' then he is unquestionably saved. The following verses speak of such individuals who have fallen, or can fall, from their position in the Lord.
Col 1:21-23 says, "Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ"™s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation - if you continue in your faith..." These verses speak of reconciled, born again believers who will be presented to God only if they continue in their faith. These individuals are saved, as a false or half-baked profession cannot bring about reconciliation with the Lord. Reconciled never means anything but being right with God ... saved.
Heb 10:26-29 says "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire ... a man deserves to be punished ... who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him ..." People here are warned that they can face judgment, even after having been "˜sanctified by the blood."™ Sanctification follows justification so the individuals alluded to here have been saved. If we fail to repent of our sin, to be cleansed by the blood of Jesus, then our heart will harden against the Spirit"™s conviction. It will get more and more difficult to bring to the Lord for cleansing, and may lead to eventual salvation loss.
Gal 5:4 says "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." The Jews spoken of here, having reverted to the Law of Moses, have been alienated from the Lord; they have fallen from Grace. Obviously they were once 'in Grace,' that is, they were once saved.
Perseverance in faith is required to reap the benefits of God's promises: Rom 2:6-7 says that eternal life is the reward for the saints perseverance Heb 10:36 says we need to persevere to receive God's promises.
In Rom 8:12-14, Paul gives clear warning to his brothers in Christ. This passage says that we are debtors and have an obligation to steadfastly keep from sin by the power of the Holy Spirit, otherwise we shall die. Verse 14 speaks of being 'led' by the Spirit. Being led doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit has us on a leash but that we voluntarily follow His leading. It's our responsibility to live by the Spirit otherwise we will die ... be lost. Also in Gal6:7-8 and Gal 5:19-21 Paul is warning believers, for the second time, that they must live Godly lives if they wish to inherit the kingdom of God.
No doubt, we have assurance of salvation because of verses such as 1 John 5:13 & Jude 1:24. However, we have a part to play in persevering. Persevering in faith is not works otherwise the confession and repentance required of us to be saved initially would also be works. Our initial trusting to be saved and the ongoing perseverance required of us are an internal "˜work"™of the heart and mind .We are continually urged to keep from sin, to walk in the Spirit, to persevere in faith and so remain in Jesus. God"™s Spirit works within us to will us to do this. He gives us the strength to abide in Jesus, as we willingly respond to His conviction. The Spirit does not force Himself upon us or cause us to act against our will. We must choose to remain in Jesus. Romans 8:35-39says that nothing in Creation can separate us from God's love, neither famine, sword, angels nor demons etc. These things are all external to us and things over which we have no control. God promises to keep us through these trials as clearly stated in Heb 13:5-6. However, these verses don't speak of the internal perseverance (our control of our will) required to walk in holiness through the Spirit. We have freedom of will to do this. God never controls our will, He wills us to do ... Phil 2:13.
Heb 6:4-6 speaks of people being unable to be brought back (renewed again) to repentance. They were clearly saved at one stage as they shared in the Holy Spirit who only dwells in believers, as stated in Act 5:32. To be brought back to repentance can only mean that they had been repentant in the first place. You can't be brought 'back' to a place that you have never been to, you can only be brought 'to' that place.
2 Pet 2:20-22 tells us of people facing judgment after having once known Jesus. They had escaped the pollution of the world through knowledge of Jesus (2 Pet 1:3), but have returned to the mire. If they are going back, then they must have left it in the first place. Only Jesus could have initially saved them from the corruption of the world to which they have returned, as Rom 8:7 makes clear.
In Matt 5:13 Jesus tells his disciples, who are the salt of the earth, that if they lose their saltiness they will be cast out. Only the saved are disciples of Jesus and He warned them against going back into the world.
John 15:6 speaks of branches cast into the fire because they failed to abide. Only a saved person is a branch in the Vine.
In Matt 10:32-33 Jesus tells the disciples that He will deny them if they deny Him. This is repeated in 2 Tim 2:12-13 where Paul says that if we endure (suffer) then we will reign with the Lord, but if we deny Him, He will deny us.
2 Pet 3:17 urges us to take care of the secure position from which we can fall. The onus is on us. There would be no care about falling, nothing to guard against, if we go to heaven no matter what we do.
Jam 5:19-20 speaks of a brother becoming a sinner and being brought back to repentance, saving him from death. A human effort is involved here. God puts the responsibility on man. The prodigal son, in Luke 15, is an example of this; he had died (spiritually) and was made alive again, saving him from death. Heb 3:12-14 warns brothers not to turn from the living God but to hold firmly till the end.
Even Timothy is warned to watch himself and persevere in his life and doctrine to ensure his salvation (1 Tim 4:16).
In 1 Cor 9:27 and 2 Tim 4:7 Paul speaks of his efforts, fighting the good fight and keeping the faith, so that he wouldn't be castaway.
Regarding being sealed with the Spirit: Scripture plainly says that the Holy Spirit is given to us as a witness and a guarantee of our salvation until the day of redemption ... Eph 1:13-14 & Rom 8:16. His Presence convicts us of sin, leading us to repentance and holy living "¦ Rom 8:3-4 and Tit 3:4-8. However, Scripture also plainly says that if we fail to co-operate with the Spirit we will be lost ... Rom 8:12-13.
The 'ifs' in many verses and the simplicity of verses such as John 15:6 and Matt 5:13 cannot simply be ignored. Like the Israelites of old, obedience is required to reap the benefits of a promise as stated in Isa 1:19-20. Note the clear warning, to the righteous, in Ezek 33:12-13. We are saved by Grace, through faith and to remain saved we must persevere in that faith to be kept from deliberate, ongoing sin or face a Christless eternity.
No one can live a sinless life but we must be kept from the type of sins which are listed in Gal 5:19-21. 1 John 2:1-2 says that Christians should not sin but if we do we are to take it to Jesus in repentance and He will forgive us and cleanse us of it as stated in 1 John 1:9. The word 'if' in this verse is critical ... if we don't confess, we won't be forgiven. The choice is ours. If anyone reading this has asked Jesus to be their Lord and Saviour but has unconfessed sin, please get on your knees and take it to Him in heartfelt repentance. He's waiting.
Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved"Mark 13:13.
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Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
Grace is not synonymous with salvation. Grace is the means by which we come to salvation, but it is not salvation. The words are simply not interchageable as if they had the same meaning.
Are you saying that one is not "saved" by grace, unless something else is done after grace appears?
If that is what you are saying, you don'tthink it is possible for one to be saved "the moment they believe"?
Are we saved by grace? Saved by faith?, Saved by works? Or some combination of all these?
Are you saying that one is not "saved" by grace, unless something else is done after grace appears?
If that is what you are saying, you don'tthink it is possible for one to be saved "the moment they believe"?
Are we saved by grace? Saved by faith?, Saved by works? Or some combination of all these?
Read for yourself what God says...it answers every one ofthe questions you asked: Ephes. 2:8-9
For it isby grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- [9] not by works, so that no one can boast.
Joe, I know what the scripture says, that is why your post brought some questions to my mind. Here is your post, this is where my questions come from.
Grace is not synonymous with salvation. Grace is the means by which we come to salvation, but it is not salvation. The words are simply not interchageable as if they had the same meaning. For example, in
"The means by which we come", shouts, works to my ears. I am confused as to what you have said, and would like to know exacty what you believe about the matter. Thats why I ask you if one is saved by grace? saved by faith?, saved by works?, or some combination of these.
I think it's clear that the phrase "fallen from grace" refers to those who stopped beleiving in the power of God's grace, and reverted back to legalism as the basis of salvation.
Reb, that was Leafrivermac's post--I can't take credit for it. Plenty of information in it though, and none of it points to "once saved, always saved".
Chad
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"We can have no '50-50' allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all."-- Theodore Roosevelt
A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Ecclesiasties 10:2
The last four letters in American..........I Can
The last four letters in Republican........I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
Reb, that was Leafrivermac's post--I can't take credit for it. Plenty of information in it though, and none of it points to "once saved, always saved".
Chad
Ah, but it does.
Look at Reb's "if's" illustration above. The thing a lot of people are missing is, is that once a person is saved their desires CHANGE. They will NOT have the desire to "Stay" in those sins. The Holy Spirit won't allow them to. (Chastising) So, I doubt they were ever saved to begin with. A saved person isn't gonna stay away from the Lord for long at all.
This was my life from about age 13 to say about 20. I confessed Him, but my life never showed it. I thank Him he kept me under conviction till I realized I was LOST W/O Him. Then one night just before bed I meant business w/ Him and ask him to save me. And He did! My life HAS been different ever since. Others know I'm not the same person I used to be. I don't desire things I used to. I'm IMMEDIATELY convicted of whatever sin I commit. Therefore I can NOT stay in those same sins. He just won't let me. You see, when a person is trully saved, there's not gonna be any "if's" they stay in the light, etc. THEY WILL.
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Fallen from grace
