logo
 

Go Back   HuntingNet.com Forums > Non Hunting > Religion

Religion Discuss how your religious views affect your hunting lifestyle. All religions are welcome to post.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-11-2007, 07:21 PM   #1
Giant Nontypical
 
Leafrivermac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South Mississippi
Posts: 5,233
Default Eternal Son

The doctrine of the eternal Son in my opinion is not Scriptural. I have not been able to find any declaration of it in the Word.
If Christ be the Son of God as to His Divine nature, then He cannot be eternal . . .for the Son implies a father . . .and father implies, in reference to son, precedency in time, if not in nature too.
If Christ be the Son of God, as to His divine nature, then the Father is of necessity prior, consequently superior to Him.
Again, if this divine nature was begotten of the Father, then it must be in time . . .there was a period when He did not exist . . .and a period when He began to exist. This destroys the eternity of our Lord and robs Him of His Godhead.
__________________
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Leafrivermac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2007, 03:56 AM   #2
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,588
Default RE: Eternal Son

it would seam the light is getting brighter,your beginning to see
cataway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2007, 05:55 AM   #3
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 2,055
Default RE: Eternal Son

In Genesis God says let Us make man in Our own image. So we know Jesus existed in the beginning. This is also how people get the trinity. When does it first speak of God as the Holy Spirit, I can't remember?
mudhead1s wife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2007, 07:41 AM   #4
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,824
Default RE: Eternal Son

A name is something given to an person, place, or thing for the purpose of idenity. God isn't a name, but God has a name. Prov 30:4 This is why repeteing Matt 28:19 is a failure to use a name in baptism. Since Father isn't a name, Son isn't a name, neither is Holy Ghost a name. These are simply three manifestations of God in his relationships to his creation. We are introduced to the main character in the bible in the first verse of the book: in the beginning GOD. Verse two we see another term, "the spirit of God". Since God is holy, his spirit must needs be holy also. The only thing I see missing here is the fleshly body (tabernacle of the true God) that is called the Son. The one that Bro Mac has pointed out, was never called "the Eternal Son", but ONLY refered to as the begotten Son. We cannot deny that Jesus always existed, the question is, how did he exist? John 1:1 tells us that he existed as The Word, or "Logos" of God. That word, or Logos, was made flesh and dwelt among us. The bible declares that "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself". Thus Jesus could truthfully say unto Phillip, "he that hath seen me, hath seen the Father". John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
So we find all three beings of the "so called Trinity" in the first two verses of the bible. The Father of creation. Mal 2:10. The son by whom all things were created. Col 1:16 And the Spirit of God, "Holy Spirit" Gen verse 2.
Hear O'Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord, and him only shalt thou serve.
Snooky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2007, 07:50 AM   #5
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 2,055
Default RE: Eternal Son

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Snooky

A name is something given to an person, place, or thing for the purpose of idenity. God isn't a name, but God has a name. Prov 30:4 This is why repeteing Matt 28:19 is a failure to use a name in baptism. Since Father isn't a name, Son isn't a name, neither is Holy Ghost a name. These are simply three manifestations of God in his relationships to his creation. We are introduced to the main character in the bible in the first verse of the book: in the beginning GOD. Verse two we see another term, "the spirit of God". Since God is holy, his spirit must needs be holy also. The only thing I see missing here is the fleshly body (tabernacle of the true God) that is called the Son. The one that Bro Mac has pointed out, was never called "the Eternal Son", but ONLY refered to as the begotten Son. We cannot deny that Jesus always existed, the question is, how did he exist? John 1:1 tells us that he existed as The Word, or "Logos" of God. That word, or Logos, was made flesh and dwelt among us. The bible declares that "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself". Thus Jesus could truthfully say unto Phillip, "he that hath seen me, hath seen the Father". John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
So we find all three beings of the "so called Trinity" in the first two verses of the bible. The Father of creation. Mal 2:10. The son by whom all things were created. Col 1:16 And the Spirit of God, "Holy Spirit" Gen verse 2.
Hear O'Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord, and him only shalt thou serve.
Amen, Snooky.
mudhead1s wife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2007, 05:16 PM   #6
Giant Nontypical
 
Leafrivermac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South Mississippi
Posts: 5,233
Default RE: Eternal Son

Not only did the Sonship have a beginning, but it will, in at least one sense, have an ending. This is evident from 1Corinthians 15:23-28. In particular, verse 24 says, "Then cometh the end, when he [Christ] shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father." Verse 28 says, "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." This passage of Scripture is impossible to explain if one thinks of a "God the Son" who is co-equal and co-eternal with God the Father. But it is easily explained if we realize that "Son of God" refers to a specific role that God temporarily assumed for the purpose of redemption. When the reasons for the Sonship cease to exist, God will cease acting in His role as Son, and the Sonship will be submerged back into the greatness of God, who will return to His original role as Father, Creator, and Ruler of all. Ephesians 5:27 describes the same scene in different terms: "That he [Christ] might present it unto himself a glorious church." Jesus will present the church to Himself! How can this be, in light of 1 Corinthians 15:24, which describes the Son presenting the kingdom to His Father? The answer is clear: Jesus in His role as Son, and as His final act as Son, will present the church to Himself in His role as God the Father.

We find another indication that the Sonship has an ending. In Acts 2:34-35, Peter quoted David in Psalm110:1: "The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, until I make thy foes thy footstool." We should note the word until[/i]. This passage describes the dual nature of Christ, with the Spirit of God (the Lord) speaking prophetically to the human manifestation of Christ (the Lord). The right hand of God represents God"s power and authority. Making foes a footstool means utterly defeating the enemy and making an open show of their defeat. In ancient times, the victor sometimes did this literally, placing his foot on the enemies heads or necks (Joshua 10:24). So the prophesy in Psalm 110 is this: The Spirit of God will give all power and authority to the man Jesus Christ, the Son of God, until[/i] the Son has completely vanquished the enemies of sin and the devil. The Son will have all power until[/i] He does this. What happens to the Son after this? Does this mean an eternal person of a trinity will stop sitting on the right hand of God or lose all power? No. It simply means that the role of the Son as ruler will cease. God will use His role as Son- God manifest in flesh- to conquer satan, thereby fulfilling Genisis 3:15, in which God said the seed of the woman would bruise the head of the devil. After that, God will no longer need the human role to rule.

After satan is cast into the Lake of Fire and all sin is judged at the last judgment (Revelation 20), there will be no further need for the Son to exersize the throne of power. Jesus Christ will cease acting in His Sonship role and be God forever.

Does this mean that God will cease using the resurrected and glorified body of Christ? I believe that Jesus will continue to use His glorified body throughout eternity. This is indicated by Revelation 22:3-4, which describes a visible God even after the last judgment and after the creation of the new heaven and new earth: "And there shall be no more curse; but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him; and they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads." Jesus is the priest forever after the order of Melchizedek (Hebrews 7:21), even though He will cease acting in His role as priest after the last judgment. The Lord"s glorified human body is immortal just like ours will be (John 3;2; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54). Although the glorified body of Christ will continue to exist, all the reasons for the reign of the Son will be gone and all the roles played by the Son will be over. Even the Son will be placed under subjection so that God may be all in all. It is in this sense that the Sonship will end.
__________________
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Leafrivermac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2007, 06:07 PM   #7
Giant Nontypical
 
Leafrivermac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South Mississippi
Posts: 5,233
Default RE: Eternal Son

Quote:
In Genesis God says let Us make man in Our own image. So we know Jesus existed in the beginning. This is also how people get the trinity.
I have a Genisis 1:26 study if your interested:

Why does this verse use a plural pronoun for God? Before we answer this, let us note that the Bible uses singular pronouns to refer to God hundreds of times. The very next verse uses the singular to show how God fulfilled verse 26: "So God created man in his own image" (Genesis 1:27). Genesis 2:7 says, "And the Lord formed man." We must therefore reconcile the plural in 1:26 with the singular in 1:27 and 2:7. We must also look at God"s image creature, which is humanity. Regardless of how we identify the various components that make up a person, he definitely has one personality and will. He is one person in every way. This indicates that the Creator in whose image humans were made is also one being with one personality and will.

Any interpretation of Genesis 1:26 that permits the existence of more than one person of God runs into severe difficulties. Isaiah 44:24 says the Lord created the heavens alone and created the earth by Himself. There was only one Creator according to Malachi 2:10. Furthermore, if the plural in Genesis 1:26 refers to the Son of God, how do we reconcile this with the scriptural record that the Son was not born until thousands of years later in Bethlehem? The Son was made of a woman (Galatians 4:4); if the Son was present in the beginning, who was His mother? If the Son was a spirit being, who was His spirit mother?

Since Genesis 1:26 cannot mean two or more persons in the Godhead, what does it mean? The Jews have traditionally interpreted it to mean that God talked to the angels at creation. This does not imply that the angels actually took part in creation but that God informed them of His plans and solicited their comments out of courtesy and respect. On at least one other occasion God talked to the angels and requested their opinions in formulating His plans (1Kings 22:19-22). We do know that the angels were present at creation. (Job 38:4-7).

Other commentators have suggested that Genesis 1:26 simply describes God as He counseled with His own will. Ephesians 1:11 supports this view , saying that God works all things "after the counsel of His own will". By analogy, this is similar to a person saying "Let"s see" (Let us see) even when he is planning by himself.

Others explain this passage as a majestic or literary plural. That is, in formal speaking and writing the speaker or writer often refers to himself in the plural, especially if the speaker is royal. Biblical examples of the majestic plural can be cited to illustrate this practice. For example, Daniel told King Nebuchadnezzar, "We will tell the interpretation thereof before the King," even tho Daniel alone proceeded to give the interpretation to the King (Daniel 2:36). King Artaxerxes alternately referred to himself in the singular and the plural in his correspondence. Once, he wrote, "The letter which ye sent unto us hath been plainly read before me" (Ezra 4:18). In a letter to Ezra, Artaxerxes called himself "I" in one place (Ezra 7:13) but "we" in another place (7:24).

The use of the plural in Genesis 1:26 also may be similar to the plural Elohim[/i] in denoting the greatness and majesty of God or the multiple attributes of God. In other words, the plural pronoun simply agrees with and substitutes for the plural noun Elohim[/i].

Still another explanation is that this passage describes God"s foreknowledge of the future arrival of the Son, much like prophetic passages in the Psalm. We must realize that God does not live in time. His plans are real to Him even though they are in the future as far as we are concerned. He calls those things that are not as though they are (Romans 4:17). A day is a thousand years to Him and a thousand years is as a day. (2 Peter 3:8). The incarnation existed from the beginning in the mind of God (John 1:1). As far as God was concerned , the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world (1Peter 1:19-20; Revelation 13:8). It is not surprising that God could look down the corridors of time and address a prophetic utterance to the Son. Romans 5:14 says that Adam was a figure of Him who was to come, that is, Jesus Christ. When God created Adam, He had already thought about the Incarnation and created Adam with that plan in mind.

Taking this idea a step further, Hebrews 1;1-2 says that God made the worlds by the Son. How could this be, seeing that the Son did not come into existence until a point in time much later than creation? (Hebrews 1:5-6). God used the Sonship to make the world. That is, He hinged everything on the future arrival of Christ. Though He did not pick up the humanity until the fullness of time was come, it was in His plan from the beginning, and He used it and acted upon it from the start. He created humans in the image of the future Son of God, and He created humans knowing that although they would sin the future Sonship would provide a way of salvation.

God created humans in the beginning so that they would love and worship Him (Isaiah 43:7; Revelation 4:11). However, by reason of His foreknowledge God knew that they would fall into sin. This would defeat God"s purpose in creating them. If this was all there was to the future, then God would have never created humans. However God had in His mind the plan for the incarnation and the plan of salvation through the atoning death of Christ. So, even though God knew humans would sin, He also knew that thru the Son of God they could be restored and could fulfill God"s original purpose. It is apparent, then, that when God created humans He had the future arrival of the Son in mind. It is in this sense that God created the worlds through the Son or by using the Son, for without the Son, Gods whole purpose in creating humans would have failed.

In summary, Genesis 1:26 cannot mean a plurality in the Godhead, for that would contradict the rest of Scripture. I have offered several other harmonizing explanations. (1) The Jews and many Christians see this as a reference to the angels. Many other Christians see it as (2) a description of God counseling with His own will, (3) a majestic or literary plural, (4) a pronoun simply agreeing with the noun Elohim[/i], or (5) a prophetic reference to the future manifestation of the Son of God.

__________________
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Leafrivermac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2007, 06:59 PM   #8
Giant Nontypical
 
Leafrivermac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South Mississippi
Posts: 5,233
Default RE: Eternal Son

Quote:
We cannot deny that Jesus always existed, the question is, how did he exist?
There it is!
__________________
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Leafrivermac is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Eternal Bliss Hooker Religion 14 01-15-2009 01:37 PM
Eternal Security.. Chuck7 Religion 47 12-27-2008 01:19 PM
Begotten Or Eternal Son ? Leafrivermac Religion 167 12-22-2008 04:55 PM
The Eternal Question(s) mixeffects Waterfowl Hunting 6 12-19-2007 08:46 PM
Begotten or Eternal Son Leafrivermac Religion 2 09-24-2006 01:16 PM

 

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:58 PM.