#1.1 Samuael 16:14But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
It was to my understanding that God doesn't tempt any man with evil...that only good comes from God..any comments..
#2. I thought one had to be pretty close to God to be usedto prophesy .
Here we have Saul with an evil spirit prophesying...any comments. 1 Samuel 19:23And he went thither to Naioth in Ramah: and the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on, and prophesied, until he came to Naioth in Ramah. 24And he stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the prophets?
Here is what I was taught .
I was taught that the Jewish people attributed everything to God...
My son and I are studying the life of David..back when I had read these things earlier in my life I just ignored them..I put them on th eshelf so to speak. I am now ready to take those off the shelf and investigate a little.
Some thoughts that come to my mind..
First and foremost...I love God with all my heart..it doesn't matter to me if I figutre this out or not. What is most important is what lessons can I learn from this and apply to my life..
Comment to #1. In essence .ALL things are of God..He made the demons .I'm reminded as I speak..that "He made Pharoah to demonstrate His power"..Is God fair?..I'll let Paul answer that question.
Romans 9:17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Comment to #2.. For me ..it shows God can use any man..He doesn't necessarily have to be walking in that loving spirit I so often talk about..Maybe this is why we see some crooked preachers.They may sincerely have a calling on their life for "The gifts and callings of God are without repentance." meaning God doesn't necessarily take them away...In summary..just because you are used of God doesn't mean your life is right with God..That is what I'm seeing here.
chiuck7
Is it possible Saul may one day here those words?? "Depart from me you who did iniquity..for I never knew you?"
First you must not take any historical accounts as if they were written in any particular order, second Go said;
Isa45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
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The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. Zephaniah 1:14
פרץ
I like Young's Literal Translation on this one: (YLT) And the Spirit of Jehovah turned aside from Saul, and a spirit of sadness from Jehovah terrified him;
Quote:
#2. I thought one had to be pretty close to God to be usedto prophesy .
Here we have Saul with an evil spirit prophesying...any comments. 1 Samuel 19:23And he went thither to Naioth in Ramah: and the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on, and prophesied, until he came to Naioth in Ramah. 24And he stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the prophets?
Just in the realm of "what I think", no . . .from my own experiance and observations one does not necessarily needs be a super christian for the Spirit of God to move upon him in such a like manner.
However, 1 Sam 18-24 tells the whole story. Saul, sent the messangers to sieze David . . .but instead of taking David . . .they themselves were siezed by the Holy Spirit. Saul sent others, and likewise the same happened to them. Finally, Saul, probably figuring he had sent boys to do a man's job went himself and did'nt make it as far as the messengers befor he was also taken by the Holy Spirit. IMO, this is Jesus showing His power and and pointing to David as God's chosen.
I likewise had a similar experiance when I was a teen when the power of God moved on me. I was'nt saved . .I did'nt even believe , but the Lord moved on me none the less. It was'nt a salvation experiance but I came away knowing that there was a God.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
.from my own experiance and observations one does not necessarily needs be a super christian for the Spirit of God to move upon him in such a like manner.
Big Mac.
Well, this is something new to me..it does make a lot of sense thoguh and answers alot of questions...it gives meaning to"And though I have the gift of prophesy, wisdom and knowledge and have not love I am nothing,"
Along the lines of what Leaf said...I thought of a book I read by Gene Edwards titled "A Tale of Three Kings". It talks about leaders and how God uses imperfected people both in leadership and servant positions. It is actually a novel, and allegory much like the type that C.S. Lewis made famous. (In essence a really long parable. It's a story and a novel but it holds direct parralels to spiritual matters...like Lion Witch and Wardrobe) Gene Ewdards' book is not geared towards children. It is excellently written...I barely put it down AND its main characters are David and Saul. So check it out!
These are all "just what I think" answers. Don't have scriptural references for them although I believe they would exist if I spent the time to study them out. (Obviously...or they wouldn't be "what I think")
#1
Saying that the evil spirit couldn't have come from God (or been appointed by God) is dangerously close to "A God of Love would never send me to Hell" type mentality. Beyond that, if the Bible says this is what happened...this is what happened. I believe everything, including evil spirits, are under God's sovereignty. When Jesus commanded that they left, they left! And when God commands, or allows, them to come...they will come. Remember Job? God will allow less than desireable things to happen to us in order that we turn back to him. Remember when David called a census. It was pride and God took the term "nip it in the bud" to the next level. He valued His relationship with David far too much to let something like pride come between them.
Lastly, I don't really see it as "tempting" Saul with evil. More like chastising. Fathers don't chastise their children because they hate them...they chastise them because they love them. We all understand this. We also all remember, very well, that there was nothing pleasing to us when we were chastised by our fathers. (Well, at least I never enjoyed it!!!)
#2
"A Tale of Three Kings" deals with this also. One of the main messages of the book is that God will use imperfect leaders. And when we find ourselves under this imperfect leadership (as David did) we are faced with the option to rebel and deny God's soveriegnty over the issue and declare "I don't understand this...you must have made a mistake and lost control of the situation. You would never allow me to be put under such an 'evil' leader."
If we really think about it, God is not 99.99% perfect. He is wholey Holy. Though He is faithful to complete the work He started, if He waits until His children are wholey perfected to use them...He's going to have a serious lack of material to work with! Using a servant who is "almost" perfect is no different than using one who is "hardly" perfect to God. HE is Perfection! the slightest deviation from perfect is so far from God it isn't fair to mention them in the same breath. Beyond that, it's appropriately called a "gift". The Giver can give that His gift to whomever He wants. If my neighbor, who is a "hidden millionare", decided to sign over all his assets to me tomorrow it would make absolutely no sense...but it is his to give.
Really sorry that got long-winded and took on a "preachy" tone. It's just my writing/thought style sometimes.
If anything is unclear or confusing, you all know the drill...just ask.
(Yo Chuck, your PM is full![&:])
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Anything I say is my opinion, just that...and only that.
"...and what does the Lord require of you, but to do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God?
Do you remember in Job, it says that satan asked God permission to tempt Job. This here reassures me that I won't be given more than I can handle. Even though God at times will harden hearts, ect. for His purpose and Glory, there are cases where He permits satan certain things, and then there are the times that God will turn His face and allow something to happen for the sole purpose of loving us enough to let us go through the pain so that we draw ourselves nearer to Him.
As far as your second question, we all have to start somewhere. We do not get right with the Lord and then start attending church, we attend church to get right with the Lord. In our church we have certain politics take place as adviced in the NT, to help strengthen the church and kind of safe guard it from turning corrupt, but you would be amazed at the number of people in jail read the bible and actually preach it. In jail is where they are free. There is no work, no cooking, worrying where the next meal will come from, mostly stress free. For us who cannot fathom this concept this is really their mindset. (If you were running from the law and constanly were looking around you trying not to get caught then you are finally caught and you are sentenced, you know what your looking at for the next how long of time.) When they get out they have the stress, their friends (not good ones), and any number of things that they can't keep it straight. This type is like my brother in-law. God is a band-aid you only need Him when you are in trouble. But none the less God continues to love Him and even to use Him.
#1.1 Samuael 16:14But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
It was to my understanding that God doesn't tempt any man with evil...that only good comes from God..any comments.. God is sovereign, and His sending, or more technically, alowing vexation via a tormenter isn't out of teh ordinary. As MH's wife said, it is similar to the Job story.
#2. I thought one had to be pretty close to God to be usedto prophesy .
Here we have Saul with an evil spirit prophesying...any comments. 1 Samuel 19:23And he went thither to Naioth in Ramah: and the Spirit of God was upon him also, and he went on, and prophesied, until he came to Naioth in Ramah. 24And he stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Wherefore they say, Is Saul also among the prophets?
In the Ot, the Holy Spirit was not indwelling as in the Nt, so the Spirit's coming and going, such as samson, and even a mule spoke to Barak.
Some tough questions in my study of David
