My dear friends ,
I'm at school so I can't write alot but will start the thread.
The Romans 7 syndrome we see is only one stage in the Christain walk. Paul did not write that to say that horrible ordeal is our abundant life promiced. Romans 7 is diffently not abundant life...please move on to Romans 8. ..The Spirit filled life is the abundant life. The Romans 7 stage is full of confusion and condemnation...WE all must go through the Romans 7 stage but God forbid..let's grow up into the Romans 8 ..the real life.
[35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
[36] As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
[37] Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
[38] For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
[39] Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
Friends,
First, I'd liketo open this up more as a study.Hopefully we can learn together. I was taught that Romans 7 was simply showing the state of a Christain beleiver who is immature and lacking the Spirit filled walk of Romans 8.
Let's start with Rom. 7 : 24 " Oh wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
For certenly it is a death..certainly it's not abundant life..certainly it's not fun living a defeated life...and over in Rom. 8:6,7 we will find the carnal mind is enmity with God and is death. So no, I don't listen to "We are only human and this is as good as it gets."
Look at Rom. 8:1 There is therefore no more condemnation to them who which are in Christ Jesus , who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.
The secret to a life of no more condemnation...2 fold
1. In Christ Jesus
2. Walking in oberdience by the Spirit...this is not opinion it's the Word.
Rom. 8:4 says "The righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but the Spirit."
So what's the difference between the Rom.7 man and the Rom 8 man.
Rom. 7 man...may be saved...I really don't know debatable for sure
see Rom. 8:9 "Now if any man have not the Spirit he is none of His."
frustrated
defeated
doubleminded
Rom. 8 man...if you look at that chapter.
Is led by God's Spirit Rom. 8:14
mind is on pleasing God..single minded
Promisedto beraise from the dead.Rom. 8:11
he is obligated to obey the Spirit. Rom. 8: 12
Summary Rom.8:13 "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die, BUT if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body ,ye shall live."
1 John 1:8-9
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
I wish I could claim perfection like some seem to be insinuating, but I know I'm not perfect. God's Word tells us that NONE of us are and that's why we need verse 9 above because of verse 8. Do we just give up or throw our hands in the air? Absolutely NOT! We ARE supposed to strive to be conformed to God's image. However, NO ONE can claim that they've arrived . . . or are gettin' close.
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Today' s small bucks are tomorrow' s trophies.
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I wish I could claim perfection like some seem to be insinuating,{That would be me Dave H.and brother I know where you are coming from} your remark is recieved in love my friend. Thanks for sharing your heart.but I know I'm not perfect. God's Word tells us that NONE of us are and that's why we need verse 9 above because of verse 8. Do we just give up or throw our hands in the air? Absolutely NOT! We ARE supposed to strive to be conformed to God's image.Amen Dave.However, NO ONE can claim that they've arrived . . . or are gettin' close.
Dave..I sense a little anger there brother..there is some great nuggets we could all benefit from this study. Dave, if a voice volumn was measured between 1 -10 ..10 being the loudest ..mine is a 1 towards you. I'm not thinking of neat little controversial post to write.I'll tell you why I started the post in my summary.
No, I'm not perfect. Fact, the closer one getsto Christ the more dependent he/ she becomes. Romans 7 and 8 describe 2 separate minds..
Summary, Here is why I started the post from greatest to least. 1. I am sopersuaded that salvation is obedience and faith combined that I beg you folksto at least look at the verses i've posted. I've posted many. For every grace verse that appears there are 10 that show please obey me by my Spirit. Our old nature does not want to hear that message.
2. The Romans 8 message of walking in obedience to God' Spirit brings blessings daily..it brings unity...it causes one to be a better testimony.
3. Althungh this thread will eventually go to the bottom and out of sight..some wayward brother will remember the Word I preached and when he's tired of living the yo yo life he will totally surrender to God .God's Word wil not go forth void but will accomplish it's message.
Brother Dave, I'm not perfect ..but yes God has delivered me from much..I would think that my brothers would rejoice when a prodical brother has proclaimed," I've repented ..it's no longer I that live but Christ that liveth in me."
I hope there is no hard feelings Dave. But when I believe there is a rattlesnake in a fellow hunters backpack...I must sound the alarm. c7
Location: Heaven is my home, temporarily residing in WNY :)
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RE: The Romans 7 stage.
Romans 7 is Paul talking about his current condition .... We have a battle with the world THE FLESH and the devil. Dave has some good points ... we carry the old man, and I don't know about any of you, but every christian I have met has struggles with lack of faith = sin ..... fear = sin ..... anger = sin .... Romans 7 is about the battle between the new man and the flesh .... when God moved in, your flesh didn't like it ..
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A Trophy is highly personal and is often determined by the circumstances, events, and the individual feelings of accomplishment and not by a score card. - Greg "Doc" Caldwell
for out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks!
Romans 7 is Paul talking about his current condition .... We have a battle with the world THE FLESH and the devil.Tony..I beleive Romans 7 is talkin gabout the Fred's or weak Christains...Christains who have never seen a mature believer walking the talk. I've been priveledged to see quite a few folks who walked the talk.consistently..They are a rare breed. i believe these tobe th efolks spoken of in Matthew 7.many are called but few are chosen.Dave has some good points ... we carry the old man, and I don't know about any of you, but every christian I have met has struggles with lack of faith = sin ..... fear = sin ..... anger = sin .... Romans 7 is about the battle between the new man and the flesh .... when God moved in, your flesh didn't like it .. Amen Tony...and I would love to continue this conversation with you..even if we see totally opposite. I've already fixed my heart not to speak haughty or condenscending..I'm hear to learn and share. At the end if we totally disagee...we are still buds
Ok ..i shared a verse earlier ..Paul says "Who shall deliver me from this mess." I see the Rom, 8 walk as that deliverance. Let's talk...
Are you tempted to rob a bank..no way..that is not in your mind. That is not a strong hold. The sins you sin are there because of James 1..you are drawn away by your own lust..Say that you have a problem with porn...What if God said the next time you click on porn I'm going to blow your head off with a 10 guage shotgun. I believe you would be delivered immediately. Now your desire is gone forever..facta thought like robbing a bank doesn;t even entice you. Romans 7 folks are conditioned that it's normal to sin..It appears Paul is sayingI struggle with sin all the time. He is not saying that at all. ..or why would he write in Eph. "Let certain sins not be named once among you ..one was as little as foolish jesting. Did Paul change his mind.I trust not....no we need to take Gal. 5 dead serious..it's worse than a 10 guage to the head.."They who do those Gal.5 things SHALL not inherit the Kingdom of God." Rom.8 gives us the instructions on how to be victorious..Walk in obedienceto God's Spirit.
Does the Rom.7 battle still come on mature Christains..yes...to the degree that we make choices daily..The disciples tried ot talk Christ out of going ot the cross. What did Christ do? he spoke the truth to Peter saying"Get thee behind me Satan. for the sayest not the things that be of God, but be of man."Still there must have been a real struggle..even to the point of shedding sweatdrops ofblood."
I believe a Romans 7 Jesus wouild have said.."I'm only human..certainly God can find another way."
The Romans 8 Jesus made his face like flint and in prayer surrendered his feelings to God in prayer..despising the shame and the pain.
This Christian brother made it more clear than I so hear ye him.
PAUL"™S STRUGGLE NOT CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE
It is of the utmost importance clearly to see that the great struggle of the latter part of Romans Seven is neither a purely Jewish one, nor a normal Christian walk, nor a necessary Christian experience.
It is not a purely Jewish struggle. Jewish struggles are set forth in the Psalms, and are a conflict with outward enemies, or the questioning cry (as in Ps. 88) as to why God seems far off, or even, for the present, seemingly against the supplicator (typically"”the Remnant in the Last Days). But not even in the deepest Psalm of trouble is there ever a hint of two natures within the struggler! (For example. Ps. 10, or Ps. 88, or Ps 77, or even such Psalms as Ps. 51, Ps. 32.)
Neither is this struggle a normal Christian experience. For, (1) there is no mention of Christ until the legal struggle is ended in self-despair,"”and, (2) There is no mention whatever of the Holy Spirit"”whose recognized presence and power make possible proper Christian experience: which is "śwalking by the Spirit."ť
That it is not a normal Christian walk, we have also shown from Paul"™s own triumphant life.
And that it is not a necessary Christian experience, is seen from the fact that Paul is, in this struggle, occupied with the Law,"”under which God says believers are not! (6:14.) The complete Gospel believed, makes such a struggle unnecessary and indeed impossible. For the gospel reveals (as in Romans 6:1-11 and 7:1-6, and all Chapter 8) (1) that we died with Christ and are now alive unto God in Christ Risen; (2) that those under Law were made dead to and discharged from the legal economy; (3) that the Holy Spirit indwelling the believer has taken over the conflict with the flesh; and is the whole power of a triumphant walk; (4) that therefore there is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, and no separation from God"™s love to those in Him!
Doubtless we often see other Christians having a Seventh-of-Romans struggle, and shall easily find ourselves falling into such a struggle. But as the gospel concerning our death with Christ both to sin and to the legal principle becomes clear to us, and our faith therein becomes strong; and our reliance upon the Holy Spirit becomes more constant, we shall walk as Paul did:"”"śThanks be unto God who always leadeth us in triumph in Christ."ť
Having explained how one becomes a Christian, Romans next describes how the Christian should and must live. Romans 3-5 teaches justification by faith; Romans 6-8 teaches sanctification by faith. If someone has truly been justified, he will be sanctified.
Justification is the strait gate through which we enter the narrow way of holiness, and from this point we are to deal with the way, not the gate. Up until this point the contrast has been between wrath and justification . . now
it is to be between sin and holiness.
__________________ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
The Romans 7 stage.
and brother I know where you are coming from} your remark is recieved in love my friend. Thanks for sharing your heart.but I know I'm not perfect. God's Word tells us that NONE of us are and that's why we need verse 9 above because of verse 8. Do we just give up or throw our hands in the air? Absolutely NOT! We ARE supposed to strive to be conformed to God's image.Amen Dave.However, NO ONE can claim that they've arrived . . . or are gettin' close. 
