It was brought up in our small group meeting on Wednesday night. My churches policy (and I didn't know it at the time) was welcome with open arms, but to insure they understand its not a core belief of the church and to do anything more than listen, and praise and worship requires the recognition and change in their lifestyles.
Now, as a follower of Christ, one is suppose to DESIRE to change, correct ? The DESIRE to follow the teachings of the Bible comes with the search for God. So the concept of staying in an anti-Biblical relationship while searching seems a foolish concept, I do not understand how they can go hand in hand really.
Anyway, one lady got VERY upset during the discussions. The reason is, sin is sin, and she said that we have current members of our church that are in teaching positions etc that every week knowingly and welcomingly commit sins, equating the living in sins between the two.
She has a point, and though she didn't expand it got us all to thinking.
A tree is known by the fruit it bears. Correct ? A Christian seeking person should surround surround himself or herself with Chrisitan people, correct ?
How can letting potentially a large group of homosexuals attending church be beneficial for the church itsself and its members ?
I understand reaching out ......... but where is the line ?
About the lady bringing up that fact that "sin is sin...regardless". I agree with her in principle. Another key to this whole puzzle is that willfull sinis willfull sin. People in postions of authority may very well be in willfull sin. Whether that willfull sin be homosexuality, drunkeness, pornography, or holding grudges...if it is apparent to the body that a person in leadership is living in willfull sin action should be taken. 1 Timothy 4 and 5 (i believe) set out the requirements for teachers and elders. As well as how to go about reproving them. I commend you on taking a concerned role in this. It's easy to let others "deal with it".
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Anything I say is my opinion, just that...and only that.
"...and what does the Lord require of you, but to do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God?
I agree 100% with soilarch. The issue is willfull, unrepentant sin. The Bible clearly states that those who PRACTICE such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
A homosexual, who continues to live in a homosexual relationship and who has no desire to change or repent of that lifestyle is a person lost in their sin the same as any other person who hasn't repented.
A person who has repented and is making an effort every day to live for God and yet stummbles here or there yet repents and moves on is covered in the Blood. The Bible teaches that we have the Bible that we won't sin, but if we do sin we have an advocate with the Father, Christ Jesus.
You can't have the advocate if you haven't repented nor accepted Him.
We should be striving to live a Holy, Righteous life every day. Paul stated that God forbid that we continue to sin that Grace may abound. He, and many other Apostles, were very clearly that we are to strive for Holiness.
A practicing homosexual couple has no desire for Biblical Holiness quite simply because of their willingness to NOT repent.
With that said, while the sin they commit is willfull, they are still sinners just like every other sinner out there. Although the Bible does seem to put more of an emphasis on sexual sin than other sin. But regardless, they are unsaved sinners, acting like unsaved sinners. They must also be given the opportunity to hear the Word of God and repent the same as everyone else.
We do need to shed our fear of homosexuality. We don't fear witnessing to a drunk or a liar do we? We must be willing to take the same steps to reach them with the Gospel as we would with any other sinner. But we also must be willing to confront them as we would anyone else as well. If a drunk walked into your church service and was biligerent, he would be asked to leave and if he didn't, would be removed correct?? Also, if a heterosexual couple were swapping spit in the back pew, would they not be asked to leave if they couldn't control themselves during the service?? If your answer to these are yes, then a homosexual couple who were making out or doing other things that are obvious, they should be treated the same as the others that are asked to leave if they can't control themselves.
Most of us have some kind of preconcieved ideas about homosexuals that go back to the time when we were young that we must shed off if we are not only going to witness to them effectively, but also deal with them in both Christian love and Christian dicipline effectively.
About the lady bringing up that fact that "sin is sin...regardless". I agree with her in principle. Another key to this whole puzzle is that willfull sinis willfull sin. People in postions of authority may very well be in willfull sin. Whether that willfull sin be homosexuality, drunkeness, pornography, or holding grudges...if it is apparent to the body that a person in leadership is living in willfull sin action should be taken. 1 Timothy 4 and 5 (i believe) set out the requirements for teachers and elders. As well as how to go about reproving them. I commend you on taking a concerned role in this. It's easy to let others "deal with it".
Amen brother!
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Jesus said, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13.
Live Life in such a way that those who do not know Christ will come to know Him because they know you
First off, if my church said they accepted gays, I'd quit, period. That is not a chuch following the teaching of the Bible IMO
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A practicing homosexual couple has no desire for Biblical Holiness quite simply because of their willingness to NOT repent.
Thats whatI keep leading myself back to. How can you REALLY be trying tofollow Biblical teachings, and searching forChrist, when you live every moment of your day in a willfull act such as homosexuality ? Its not like a drunkard who slips off the wagon twice a week, or the druggy who live 23 1/2 hours a day as good as he can and then lapses into a fix. You know ?
What about surrounding ones self with Chrisitan people ? How important is that ? What about having the body of Christ(the church) 20%practicing homosexuals ........ is that REALLY healthyfor the church ?
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We do need to shed our fear of homosexuality. We don't fear witnessing to a drunk or a liar do we?
I do not fear homosexuals for me ....... I fear the impact they and society have on my children, just like I fear a bunch of bad kids that get drunk influencing my kids, or a bad friend who's a habitual liar making an impact.
Todays world is VERY homosexual friendly, accepting ....... almost to the point of it being cool and hip to be *****.
an ignorant statement like that is what makes christians look like a bunch of hate mongors like yourself.
Sin is sin. If you want to kill homosexuals you have to kill everyone else who commits fornication, adultery, or any other sin for that matter.
I think homosexuals should be allowed inside the church. Like Jesus said, it is not the the healthy who need a doctor but the sick. Should these people be in leadership? no way! And as Christians we probably shouldn't even hang out with those people. But we should try to reach them in every way possible. Now if they're coming to church praising God like nothing is wrong, then they probably believe it's ok to be gay and it's up to the pastor and other members of the church to tell them it is wrong.
I find it kind of troubling when Christians single out homosexuals. it seems many of us are trying to simply get rid of them rather than trying to reach them.
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"Animals: fun to pet, better to chew."
-Jim Gaffigan
Allow me to, in a way play devil's advocate, and follow up on NiceandBlue
I agree, the sick need the physicians. But what about associating or "hanging out" with the "sick"? Wasn't Christ's statement in response to the pharisee that wondered why he was "hanging out" with known sinners? Yet we're not to sit at the scoffer's table. So is there a balance? Is this a place where the Spirit's leading/discernment comes into play?
As to them teaching sunday school I think we are all still in agreement. "Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin." But remember to remove the plank from your own eye before taking the splinter from a friends. And "The blind leading the blind" will get both hurt. I think a confessing and practiceing homosexual would qualify for a plank-eyed blind man!
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Anything I say is my opinion, just that...and only that.
"...and what does the Lord require of you, but to do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God?
an ignorant statement like that is what makes christians look like a bunch of hate mongors like yourself.
Sin is sin. If you want to kill homosexuals you have to kill everyone else who commits fornication, adultery, or any other sin for that matter.
I think homosexuals should be allowed inside the church. Like Jesus said, it is not the the healthy who need a doctor but the sick. Should these people be in leadership? no way! And as Christians we probably shouldn't even hang out with those people. But we should try to reach them in every way possible. Now if they're coming to church praising God like nothing is wrong, then they probably believe it's ok to be gay and it's up to the pastor and other members of the church to tell them it is wrong.
I find it kind of troubling when Christians single out homosexuals. it seems many of us are trying to simply get rid of them rather than trying to reach them.
Maybe, from an outsiders, perspective, my group does look like a bunch of hate mongers, but, we do more right then wrong, i guarantee that. Next time, do a little research.
the situation behind the homosexual threads
